twelvepoint wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:25 pm

eephus wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:36 pm I used to try to think the first couple LPs of Mothers stuff was OK, but really I do not like any of it at all.

His music does have any of the things I value in art. No soul, no good humor, nothing really trenchant, no sense of mystery. There's nothing beguiling or passionate about it.

It is all quite peevish and often mean-spirited, but it doesn't have the force of real hate behind it. Which makes it irritating itself in turn, ironically enough.

I'd definitely rather listen to any band made up of the hippies he liked to run down. I'd rather listen to Phish, his progeny, who at least seem to have some enthusiasm for things outside their ecosystem.

If you've ever had the misfortune of seeing Phish live, you might roll that one back.

I can't stand Phish, but at least there's some joy in it, on the part of the practitioners as well as adherents

eephus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:03 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 1:25 pm

eephus wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:36 pm I used to try to think the first couple LPs of Mothers stuff was OK, but really I do not like any of it at all.

His music does have any of the things I value in art. No soul, no good humor, nothing really trenchant, no sense of mystery. There's nothing beguiling or passionate about it.

It is all quite peevish and often mean-spirited, but it doesn't have the force of real hate behind it. Which makes it irritating itself in turn, ironically enough.

I'd definitely rather listen to any band made up of the hippies he liked to run down. I'd rather listen to Phish, his progeny, who at least seem to have some enthusiasm for things outside their ecosystem.

If you've ever had the misfortune of seeing Phish live, you might roll that one back.

I can't stand Phish, but at least there's some joy in it, on the part of the practitioners as well as adherents

Not a huge fan of Phish, but if I was in a massively popular live band, I would want to be able to do stuff like some of the Halloween shows that they have pulled off. That kind of thing is what keeps a band together and happy.

Having gone to school in northern NE late 80s/early 90s I probably have some special feelings about Phish. Like the Dead or Jimmy Buffett or Insane Clown Posse, they created a culture so entwined with their music it's futile to try and separate the two.

eephus wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:03 pm I can't stand Phish, but at least there's some joy in it, on the part of the practitioners as well as adherents

Also can't stand them, but I have a few friends in the secondary circle that are massive Phish fans, and they are all wonderful, fun, kind people who I would let watch my kids for a month without worrying for a second. I'd go on vacation with these people given we had some rules around who controls the speaker and for how long lol.

Usually they're happy go lucky stoner types that grew up, had kids, and only smoke pot now when they see Phish.

Nc but barely. I heard "Uncle meat" at the *exact* right time in my life and Hot Rats is killer jam-rock. Meanwhile, I like all the original Mothers albums to varipus extents though I wouldn't call any of them *great*, I guess "Wer'e only in it for the money" comes close but the comedy/irony factor kills the vibe...

Later stuff tend to be extremely bad music thpugh I must admit I've grown to appreciate "Overnite sensation" and "Apostrophe" based on how extremely 70s tasteless and greasy they sound...
Classical music rarely interests me so *that* aspect of his artistry is whatever to me; it's "competent" I guess..

I’ve been listening to the History of Rock in 500 Songs episode about the Dead’s “Dark Star.” (It’s really about the band in general.) I’m not a fan of the Dead, but their history is interesting and the podcast host is good, so I’m still engaged halfway through the episode’s four hours.

But it got me to thinking about Frank Zappa, who “hated” hippies, as his fans continually emphasize.

Guess what? Pitchfork used to hate hipsters. Zappa’s professed hatred means nothing. He looked like them, shared bills with them, had the same musical and experimental art as them, and so on. The only difference was that Zappa used different and fewer drugs.

Basically, Frank Zappa is 95% the same as Jerry Garcia, down to the unfortunate facial hair and quasi-libertarian world view.

Hear that, Ghost of Frank Zappa? You’re a hippie.

i wish i'd squandered less of my time, attention and money on this guy's work when i was a friendless teenager.

give thanks often that i made it out of that phase of my life with broader horizons, and specifically without becoming one of the cultists.

i think there was a rightfully despairing cynical intellect there originally, and i don't think all of the work is without accomplishment or merit.

but based on having heard much of it at least once ... for all the extended durations and hellish complications, it really doesn't have very much to say.

dfglv wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 12:15 pm i wish i'd squandered less of my time, attention and money on this guy's work when i was a friendless teenager.

I think that's the pull quote we were looking for.

Like most artists that have produced that much content, yes I'm sure there has to be SOMETHING in there I'd like.

No, I will not go on that vision-quest unless you agree to pay off my house.

Crap.

I completely blanked on the fact that I played the Zappanale once. Everyone was super warm and nice (maybe not the vibe you'd expect?), perhaps they were happily in their bubble – in any case they were super cool to the bands.

I adore Uncle Meat, it contains all the things I like about the music without the things that ruin it for me. Silly, surreal, playful experimentation, without the toxic attitude, somehow hits a sweet spot for me and I can still put it on and enjoy it.

Montana is a good kids song, it was fun playing it for my toddler and singing along with him and having him be introduced to a bunch of weird shit in an usual context in the space of five minutes.