cakes wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:31 pm Here's my last try at mastering.

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:58 am

penningtron wrote: Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:55 pm That reminds me of something else I see on mastering FAQs:

Don't evaluate the master on the system you mixed it on.

Brutal perhaps, but doesn't that also help you get better?

(I think everyone would agree that a variety of systems is ideal for evaluation)

OK, so the reason we say 'don't evaluate the master on the system you mixed on', is because part of the reason for hiring a ME is to correct for any flaws in that system.. So for example say you mix on speakers that have no low end and you boost and/or don't cut the low end in your mix so it sounds good on those speakers. That low end boost sounds obviously not right to me when I master it so I shelve it back or whatever and send you back a nicely balanced master. Which on your speakers might sound thin compared to the mix you're used to hearing. But everywhere else it'll work better.

All that said, whenever I had anyone else master stuff for me back in the day, the first thing I ever did was put it on in my studio. So i know everyone's going to listen to their masters the same way, it's probably your best set of speakers, of course you're going to. But yeah, a variety of systems is the best way to evaluate.

Anyway, that brings up something else I wanted to mention: anyone self-mastering, you're probably mastering on the same system/room you mixed in, and you need to be aware that this is a big handicap. I'm not saying that to discourage you or get you to hire me, anyone interested in this stuff should dive in. But again, a big part of mastering is listening to it in a different (better) room on different (better) speakers. Without that, you're working at a disadvantage so you need to be aware of it.

Why? Because say you have speakers that are all boom and sizzle (like old Genelecs) or say they're all weird, lumpy midrange (Event 2020s). A mix on the former is likely going to have a bit too much midrange, the opposite on the latter. It's easy to hear this stuff on a different set of monitors, but if you're mastering on the same ones you mixed on, well you already made it sound how you want on those. I used to mix on the Events, and over time I learned that if I left the mix sounding kinda boxy on those, it'd sound right everywhere else. OK, that's doable. But if you go to master something and it sounds boxy to your ears, you're going to want to reduce that boxiness and cut some midrange, and well, you see what I mean?

If you post here, you probably have a good pair of headphones, and those can really be your friend. I personally don't really like listening on phones and rarely do it, but if you're working in a home studio environment they're almost for sure going to have a deeper/flatter low end response than your monitors. So use those to help, and evaluate your mastering on as many other sets of speakers you can find, the car, laptop, whatever. It doesn't have to sound incredible on everything, but it should work.

cakes wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:21 am However, would it be worth the investment for a second pair of monitors for mastering? And if so, what kind of profile would one be looking for in a set of speakers for mastering, if at all?

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:45 am

cakes wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:21 am However, would it be worth the investment for a second pair of monitors for mastering? And if so, what kind of profile would one be looking for in a set of speakers for mastering, if at all?

Spend your money on room treatment before anything else. I know it's boring, but it's far and away the smartest money you can spend. a $200 pair of monitors in a really well treated room is a useful thing. $20,000 monitors in an untreated room doesn't get you anywhere.

I've had the same set of monitors in 3 different rooms now, each one bigger and better treated than the one before it. They sound sooooo much better in my current room, they're only going to sound as good as the room will allow. Your monitors might have nice tight bass response, but if they're in an untreated room where the low end is bouncing around like crazy, you'll never know that.

I've had my B+W's forever, I don't even know what's out there for mastering monitors now, but you want as flat a profile as you can get (that's how you want your room too). Fast transient response, detailed midrange.

MoreSpaceEcho wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:58 am OK, so the reason we say 'don't evaluate the master on the system you mixed on', is because part of the reason for hiring a ME is to correct for any flaws in that system.. So for example say you mix on speakers that have no low end and you boost and/or don't cut the low end in your mix so it sounds good on those speakers. That low end boost sounds obviously not right to me when I master it so I shelve it back or whatever and send you back a nicely balanced master. Which on your speakers might sound thin compared to the mix you're used to hearing. But everywhere else it'll work better.

All that said, whenever I had anyone else master stuff for me back in the day, the first thing I ever did was put it on in my studio. So i know everyone's going to listen to their masters the same way, it's probably your best set of speakers, of course you're going to. But yeah, a variety of systems is the best way to evaluate.

cakes wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:52 am Where do you recommend to start for figuring out a space?

losthighway wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:11 pm When I went down the wormhole, MSE's memorable quote was that treating bass issues was done in feet of insolation not inches.

Broadband absorbers are easy to build, affordable and so good at addressing issues in the mids and highs. They do fuck all for you in the lows.

Bass trapping is a fucking son of a bitch where you spend hundreds on supplies, hours building and then it's a bit better. It won't chart flat, just less bad, unless you're willing to design and build a new room.

Still there is satisfaction in knowing I'm completing mixes with some troughs and hills in the <200hz range where there used to be some deep chasms and scary peaks.