AttackChimp wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:03 pm Thank you. Gunna check this out. I don't think I've ever really listened to Black Sabbath.

What?

bigc wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:34 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:03 pm Thank you. Gunna check this out. I don't think I've ever really listened to Black Sabbath.

What?

Yeah. I have a huge proto-metal blind spot. I'm reading about the production of ST now.

AttackChimp wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:25 pm

RyanZ wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:57 am Don't ask me. I'm the guy that thinks Dead Moon Records are perfect.

No. This is exactly what we're talking about.

...except you forgot to mention abuse on some level.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Please clarify

RyanZ wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:49 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:25 pm

RyanZ wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:57 am Don't ask me. I'm the guy that thinks Dead Moon Records are perfect.

No. This is exactly what we're talking about.

...except you forgot to mention abuse on some level.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Please clarify

Flipper abused alcohol and themselves. Steely Dan abused all sorts of stuff and people. Zappa traumatized people who auditioned for him. Mark E Smith. Beefheart.

jeff fox wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:18 am
(Flipper has 1.5 albums worth of perfect. the rest is shit.)

Flipper had one perfect record, one good record and one great compilation album of b-sides, unreleased stuff, live material, and alternative takes of the earlier stuff.

AttackChimp wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:17 pm

RyanZ wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:49 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:25 pm

No. This is exactly what we're talking about.

...except you forgot to mention abuse on some level.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here. Please clarify

Flipper abused alcohol and themselves. Steely Dan abused all sorts of stuff and people. Zappa traumatized people who auditioned for him. Mark E Smith. Beefheart.

Whew! Ok, I thought you we're implying something about Dead Moon.

What an incongruent comparison...

Flipper's songwriting is simplistic and crude, and their studio recordings can't hold a candle to their live show. Blow'n Chunks is their best album by far.

Steely Dan's songwriting is varied and sublime, and their studio acumen has never been reproduced by any other band that I've ever heard. Yet their live performances are rather lackluster.

I don't believe either band has ever achieved perfection in both settings, though Steely Dan has come pretty damn close in the studio.

jfv wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:10 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:02 pm

Bernardo wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 6:27 am "rock vs disco" next? "punk vs prog"? yay!

How about my nuts vs your chin?

Eww that went hard

Anyway, FM Bernardo, feel free to start new threads if you don't like this one.

I'd just expect to be a given, 20+ years into this community's life, that most of us will not think technical accuracy is inherently better than raw expression.

It's also a VERY limited way of experiencing music, to believe that dichotomy. There is much to be found in End Result, Von, Steely Dan, Void and Allan Holdsworth, if you approach them from a place of genuine interest and curiosity. My life is much better for going at it from that angle.

Bernardo wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:52 am

jfv wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:10 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:02 pm

How about my nuts vs your chin?

Eww that went hard

Anyway, FM Bernardo, feel free to start new threads if you don't like this one.

I'd just expect to be a given, 20+ years into this community's life, that most of us will not think technical accuracy is inherently better than raw expression.

It's also a VERY limited way of experiencing music, to believe that dichotomy. There is much to be found in End Result, Von, Steely Dan, Void and Allan Holdsworth, if you approach them from a place of genuine interest and curiosity. My life is much better for going at it from that angle.

New folks that haven't gone through those same 20+ years need to hear these kinds of responses, not immediate dismissal.

Bernardo wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:52 am It's also a VERY limited way of experiencing music, to believe that dichotomy.

I don't strictly believe the dichotomy. I literally don't believe that overproduction is a bad thing.

I feel like there's something similar to Flipper and Steely Dan, but I can't find the words for it. I feel like it revolves around a perception of perfection, or the satisfaction of a "perfectly executed" "finished product". I originally thought abuse was a centerpiece of their processes, or maybe drug abuse and mad genius mixed together.

It's obvious they're wildly different, but people end up feeling similar. Why is Generic perfect? Does that apply to Aja and vise versa.

Bernardo wrote: Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:52 am There is much to be found in End Result, Von, Steely Dan, Void and Allan Holdsworth, if you approach them from a place of genuine interest and curiosity. My life is much better for going at it from that angle.

I listen to music just fine. I just don't understand it from time to time, sure. It's still mysterious to me.