Instead of opening a can of worms, how about not teaching either creationism or evolution in a public school environment. It is as simple as that. You won't have to cross that line of church and state separation issue ,while at the same time not being attacked by the religious right. Are they really necessary in public schools? That is what college is for.

punch_the_lion wrote:Instead of opening a can of worms, how about not teaching either creationism or evolution in a public school environment. It is as simple as that. You won't have to cross that line of church and state separation issue ,while at the same time not being attacked by the religious right. Are they really necessary in public schools? That is what college is for.

There is no line being crossed by evolution being taught in science classes. It is a proven concept that belongs in science classes in any decent education system. Public schools should not have classes on religion, which is ostensibly where this creationism nonsense should be taught.

The religious right have no valid argument, and the whole "intelligent design" thing is disingenuous and desperate. You're basically asking "Why don't we just not teach evolution or magic?"

Keep this in mind:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/05/ ... index.html

Maybe as this continues to go downhill, he will continue to make a grander spectacle of himself.

-Kevin

punch_the_lion wrote:Instead of opening a can of worms, how about not teaching either creationism or evolution in a public school environment. It is as simple as that. You won't have to cross that line of church and state separation issue ,while at the same time not being attacked by the religious right. Are they really necessary in public schools? That is what college is for.

How do you then teach biology, chemisty and physics?

I was reading today that the level of highly qualified scientists in the US is becoming a serious threat to long-term competitiveness against countries like China, that don't have "serious" debates about whether nonsense should be taught in school...

placeholder wrote:

Christopher wrote:

davesec wrote:i imagine it's probably right up there for most widely accepted theories.

Widely accepted by who? The fatbody Joe-moron who thought Fast and the Furious was a good movie? I don't want the average superstitious American teaching my kids, thanks.

Yes. "Widely accepted" is not necessarily "correct" or "proven."

true. although i suppose after evolution, creationism (or any other alternative to evolution) all rank 2nd as far as 'proven' is concerned.

concerning 'widely accepted', i imagine a great majority of christians believe in creationism. actually i wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people on earth believed their god created the universe.. which i know isn't exactly creationism but is more or less intelligent design.

davesec wrote:

placeholder wrote:

Christopher wrote:

davesec wrote:i imagine it's probably right up there for most widely accepted theories.

Widely accepted by who? The fatbody Joe-moron who thought Fast and the Furious was a good movie? I don't want the average superstitious American teaching my kids, thanks.

Yes. "Widely accepted" is not necessarily "correct" or "proven."

true. although i suppose after evolution, creationism (or any other alternative to evolution) all rank 2nd as far as 'proven' is concerned.

concerning 'widely accepted', i imagine a great majority of christians believe in creationism. actually i wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people on earth believed their god created the universe.

A majority of people thought Hitler was a great guy in German once upon a time...

punch_the_lion wrote:Instead of opening a can of worms, how about not teaching either creationism or evolution in a public school environment. It is as simple as that. You won't have to cross that line of church and state separation issue ,while at the same time not being attacked by the religious right. Are they really necessary in public schools? That is what college is for.

Explain how you would sidestep evolution and still be able teach other branches of modern science. Evolution is so completely tied in to multiple areas of science that it would be outright retarded to ignore it just to please a religious sect. It'd be like trying to teach English without the letter "e" because fundamentalist Christians decided it conflicted with their story. Fuck them and fuck bowing to their irrational demands.

punch_the_lion wrote:Instead of opening a can of worms, how about not teaching either creationism or evolution in a public school environment. It is as simple as that. You won't have to cross that line of church and state separation issue ,while at the same time not being attacked by the religious right. Are they really necessary in public schools? That is what college is for.

The political aim of the Christian Right is to remove evolution from the schools. To "not teach either" neatly accomplishes this goal. The reason evolution is worth teaching is that it is the basis for all further biological science education. Anatomy means nothing without it. Genetics means nothing without it. Biochemistry means nothing without it.

It is imperative that evolution be taught in schools so we don't create a generation of scientific illiterates. If we abdicate on this one, and pretend that "not teaching either" is some kind of compromise, then we are dooming the medical and other life science progress in this country.

One could "not teach either" position regarding the existence of the Holocaust, but that would be a horrible mistake. It is critical that students learn about the Holocaust because it is interwoven with all of history and culture for most of the 20th century. One cannot understand the existence of a unified Europe, the East/West divide, the creation of Israel, etc. without it.

One cannot study biology without evolution. They are inextricable.

did you guys learn that god created the world in science class or something? and now yr still pissed about it?

kenoki wrote:did you guys learn that god created the world in science class or something? and now yr still pissed about it?

I think this forum is populated mostly by rational people. Rational people bristle at the notion of magic being taught as fact in public schools.