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I'm sorry, 60% voter turnout is pretty low? Voter turnout in EU in particular is always 50 to 60%, a bit less for the EU parliament elections.

Around 60% for a country that makes it hard for the half of the country to vote is absolutely astonishing, with everything included.

I think there are two really different components to this argument. The first is the durability of MAGA culture. It's far outlasted its predecessor, the Tea Party. There's a voting bloc that never quits their guy. As we've said on here before, it seems unlikely that it will continue without their guy. They've never loved anyone the way they love him. Trump's rapidly deteriorating health seems the only threat to the future of the movement.

Kirk is something else. He was really a kind of postmodern pundit. He didn't produce anything memorable. He's the product of a tik tok attention economy. Ironically the only way he will matter in 1-2 years is that he was a guy who got assassinated. This week was his biggest cultural moment. It all fades from here.

Gramsci wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 3:37 am 90% of the population in the US probably had no to little idea who Kirk was, remember most people do not engage with politics in any way in their daily lives.

He was just as much a cultural figure as a political one. Maybe not quite a Rogan or Tucker Carlson at his peak but fairly well known in recent years. Even a non-voter has probably seen him in their social media feeds.

Which is sad. The average person probably couldn't name their own state's senators yet know of these half-wits.

I had heard the name Charlie Kirk but I had no idea who he was or that he looked like Butthead until he was killed. He will be forgotten.

penningtron wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 8:35 am

Gramsci wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 3:37 am 90% of the population in the US probably had no to little idea who Kirk was, remember most people do not engage with politics in any way in their daily lives.

He was just as much a cultural figure as a political one. Maybe not quite a Rogan or Tucker Carlson at his peak but fairly well known in recent years. Even a non-voter has probably seen him in their social media feeds.

Which is sad. The average person probably couldn't name their own state's senators yet know of these half-wits.

That was my reaction…”who is this guy?” And in actuality he’s just a popular youtuber. But then I’ve been told a large part of why Biden/Harris struggled with certain demographics is they didn’t engage enough with the twitterverse. Seeing how people live these days, I’m willing to believe that.

^ Similarly, I recognized the name but couldn’t have picked him out of a lineup.

I wonder if public opinion is going to turn even further. The shooter was a victim of gun fetishism in a religious, right wing family, who--if he is a groyper, looking more likely by the day--killed Kirk for not being extremist enough (there's a whole Wikipedia page dedicated to this subject), there was a man killed point blank in Franklin Park by an ICE agent, and a report just came out on the low morale of the National Guard. That's just the shit happening this week, the economy is tanking and tariffs are destroying farmers and hurting regular people.

All this for Trump's ego and the wet dreams of Christian Nationalists and Tech Billionaires.

Lu Zwei wrote: Sat Sep 13, 2025 7:48 am I'm sorry, 60% voter turnout is pretty low? Voter turnout in EU in particular is always 50 to 60%, a bit less for the EU parliament elections.

Around 60% for a country that makes it hard for the half of the country to vote is absolutely astonishing, with everything included.

For European parliamentary elections sure. But for individual countries general elections it’s variable but last German was 80%+, France 70%+ but the UK and last Italian was terrible at around 60%. Which is historically low.

But how votes are distributed is equally important. Countries without some form of proportional representation can have sweeping but shallow majorities. First Past the Post is incredibly dumb.

Given the fact that the majority of Americans didn’t know who Charlie Kirk was before the shooting and now the media is probably getting significantly more clicks than they did before the shooting…it makes wonder if this is going to be an ongoing headline nightmare a la JonBenet or OJ. I can easily envision this being the headline that eclipses all other headlines for months to come. Perfect scenario for Trump, Bibi, and Putin.

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but it is truly a privilege to have not known about the existence of Charlie Kirk. No cap.