nihil wrote:Let's pretend to agree that George W. lit the fuse. You know, as if you can prove this with such fascinating evidence as:
Why isn't there a photo of the plane crashing into the pentagon?
or
Why did the towers fall this way and not that way?
or
When I fold this $20 bill, why does an image of the burning towers emerge?
And then I agree by saying something along the lines of: "Yeah, most people are so unaware. They act as if we've been fucking the world for so long that there are people out there that would actually want to attack us! Those people are so clueless Clocker Bob. Man, I wish they could comprehend what you and I know to be the only answer. Bush had to set up this plan in order to find a reason to go to war.
You know, I actually talked to someone who was so naive the other day. He mentioned that bin Laden told the press that this was going to happen way back in like, 1998? What a fool. I can't believe that he didn't realize that Osama and George were drinkin' buddies. What a fool."
I follow you, but I just want to interject here that GWB is not a cart builder, he is the horse placed in front of the cart after The War On Terror was agreed upon as the new massage parlor of global military financing after the cartels determined that the Cold War had fulfilled its usefulness in that regard.
The Project for a New American Century rogue's gallery organized their assets, called in favors, and somehow made GWB a presentable candidate to the US electorate. While The House Of Bush is tied together with the House Of Saud, the CFR, the CIA, etc., GWB is not a plotter, he's an easily managed front man.
nihil wrote:Again, let us pretend that we agree on this scenario.
Sure, boil it down to: This war was in the works before 2000 and certainly before 9/11, and yes, we agree.
nihil wrote:Who does it help? What does it accomplish? If you really think that you can end the war or improve domestic social conditions by exposing this "scandal", then of course you are free to go down this road. But in my opinion, real change is made by popular movements. Look at history. Look at the recent elections in Central Americas. The powerful are intimidated and sueded by popular grassroots movements. Not by exposing scandals.
I don't understand how you think that there isn't room on the road to justice for both grassroots movements and the scandal exposers. And that many of us have our feet in both camps.
When a scandal is exposed, the dirty laundry of the greasiest and most sinister factions of the American political system is aired in public. Hopefully, careers are ended, jail time is served, fines are paid, whatever.
Take Halliburton, for example. They've been ripping off taxpayers and rigging contracts because they own their overseers. While you attempt to unelect their overseers, I'll attempt to tie Dick Cheney to 9/11, and we'll meet at a very happy place where we can watch Dick burn in hell.
nihil wrote:If you can prove that real change has been made by exposing a conspiracy to murder many American lives....I will send you a naked picture of my girlfriend.
That's a trick question on multiple levels. I can hardly prove real lasting change has been achieved in America as the result of the exposure of any conspiracy along its history, because America 2006 is the most corrupt it has ever been.
This gives credence to all the grand thinkers who compare America to other empires that decayed from within and without, and see the same trends. We are the worst country we have ever been. Our tendency to only act for global good if we are simultaneously exporting and installing exploitation capitalism has never been stronger.
The roster of countries who resent our ambitions is longer than ever, and it's not only because they don't want us to succeed, it's because of how we act after we succeed.
We say, "Let us run the world, we're a capital D Democracy, we're smart and fast and pretty", and they look at us and say,
"Get the fuck out of here. Your popular culture is a cesspool. Your streets are violent and overrun by drug users and drug sellers. Your citizens are so wasted that they can't even find Iran on a map, they barely vote, and your school systems turn out dumber versions of these adults every year. You can't even make your great economic system work for those inside your own country; you cannibalize your middle class so you can give their jobs to our brown-skinned people for 10 cents on the dollar!"
When the Monkey President tells America the we were attacked on 9/11 because "they hate our freedoms" while simultaneously increasing domestic wire-tapping, how silly does he look? Whether you believe al Qaeda is an agent of US intelligence or not, when you examine the motives of widespread Islamic contempt for America, it's not our freedoms they're hating us for, it's that we look exactly like Babylon to them, Infidels, Inc.
So, I can't prove real, lasting change has been achieved by exposing a scandal, just like you can't prove real, lasting change has been achieved by your grassroots movements. We are both on the same slippery slope.
The rate of America's decline has been slowed by implementation of legislation after a scandal has been uncovered. Do you want a list of those instances?