galanter wrote:Don't be naive.

What happened when Israel *was* at the 67 borders? They were attacked that's what.

It's been a while since I went through this but I seem to recall it was Israel who attacked - pre-emptively.
Yes, Nasser and the others had been sabre rattling and mobilizing and Israel and Syria had been spatting over their border but Israel launched the offensive.
And let's not forget what led to the sabre rattling. Israel had joined in with the Frogs and the Brits to attack Egypt over it's desire to nationalise the Suez Canal. They backed off after UN pressure, ten years later Egypt told the UN to leave. Escalation - 1967 War.

galanter wrote:It doesn't matter where the border is. Wherever it is those who have vowed to wipe out Israel will go up to the line and start launching missiles.

Of course it matters where the border is. Now you're being naive.

galanter wrote:When Israel had internal radicals they literally dragged them out of Gaza kicking and screaming.

What exactly do you mean 'had internal radicals'? They have them.
You're doing it again - making me think you are being wilfully ignorant.
If Israel pulled back to the 67 borders Israels biggest problem would not be from the Arabs it would be from extremist Zionist groups within Israel.

galanter wrote:(As if they would magically stop at the 67 borders...where is *any* evidence that that's true?)

Since 67 most other Arab countries have recognised Israel's right to exist and accepted the only solution is a two state one.
I am sure that peace wouldn't happen immediately (and I qualified this when I made the statement you quoted) but they would starve the extremism of oxygen if they pulled back.

The situation as it is now is clearly not leading to peace either so something radical is needed. I say, after being asked, they should either pull back to the '67 borders (my preference) or get it over with and kill all the Arabs to make the problem go away (not my preference) what's your solution?

Oh and Gramsci, despite 60 years of this it doesn't look lay the A-rabs are giving in either.

Your assessment seems to suggest you favour my latter suggestion.

Other nations (hello, America ) have started out that way after all.

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An american tourist, trapped in Lebanon, is saying on the radio that the American embassy is advising American citizens to not travel close to the Syrian border. Is Israel planning to bomb Syria?

Why isn't the US sending envoys to mediate?

Cranius wrote:
Why isn't the US sending envoys to mediate?

Midterm US elections. Not a time when one can expect to see the US admin. engaged in anything vaguely contentious.

Earwicker wrote:
It's been a while since I went through this but I seem to recall it was Israel who attacked - pre-emptively.

While it is true that Israel fired the 1st shots, it would be a mistake to imply they they provoked the hostilities. This is a pretty fair analysis of the 6 day war.

AlBStern wrote:

Earwicker wrote:
It's been a while since I went through this but I seem to recall it was Israel who attacked - pre-emptively.

While it is true that Israel fired the 1st shots, it would be a mistake to imply they they provoked the hostilities. This is a pretty fair analysis of the 6 day war.

Galanter said that Israel was attacked in '67. I was pointing out that that wasn't true. Nasser might have been mouthing off like a loon but if by 'attacked' we mean bombin' n killin' Israel attacked the Arabs first in '67.

And the provocation argument depends on where you draw the line. Israel attacked Egypt in '56 as far as I remember originally taking control of Gaza at that time. Those events seem to have had a direct effect on the events ten years later.
Ten years isn't a lot of time politically speaking after all.

I also recall (but ask for some lee way on this one as it's been a while and maybe someone could correct me or fill in the blanks) reading somewhere that Nasser attacked, knowing fine well he was militarily outmatched, as it was the only way he could make the international community (i.e America) to start to pay attention to things Israel were doing to the Arabs - in and out of their 'borders'.

You said you couldn't believe the lack of objectivity regarding this situation I think leveled at anti-occupation arguers but I might say the same thing at those supporters of Israel (if that's what you and others are?).

Do you agree with what the Israeli government is doing?
If not what would you do instead?

scott wrote:It's times like this I wish the US would just nuke Israel and put an end to all this bullshit.

I don't understand how comments like this can be tolerated and further more applauded by some on this forum.
Imagine the uproar of outrage if someone suggested that
The US nuked Palestine or Lebanon.... ‘to end all the bullshit’

In an otherwise intelligent and fair discussion, im surprised no one raised an eyebrow at such an ignorant, stupid and racist comment....

roberto wrote:

scott wrote:It's times like this I wish the US would just nuke Israel and put an end to all this bullshit.

I don't understand how comments like this can be tolerated and further more applauded by some on this forum.
Imagine the uproar of outrage if someone suggested that
The US nuked Palestine or Lebanon.... ‘to end all the bullshit’

In an otherwise intelligent and fair discussion, im surprised no one raised an eyebrow at such an ignorant, stupid and racist comment....

Well I suggested Israel could kill all the Arabs to solve the problem.

Levels it out a bit.

Carry on.

Cranius wrote:Why isn't the US sending envoys to mediate?

Because it isn't in the US interests. All you need to watch is GWB's press conference yesterday from the G8 summit. The guy had raw meat hanging off his incisors when asked if there was anything 'excessive' about the Israeli response. He is a pathetic treasonous devil.

"Yes, massa Olmert...yes, massa".

Our current PNAC-controlled posture is like the final unveiling of our true malevolence towards any unpuppetized Arabs ( or Persians ). The battle lines have been drawn in stone. No more feigned evenhandedness. We should totally join the slaughter, stomp the civilians like grapes in Lebanon and Syria and then turn the whole region over to Likud. Grab hold of the death machine and crack the whip like we're in the home stretch at Churchill Downs.

Bush likes to dream about his War on Terror beginning on 9/11. It began this July. Now it's on.