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Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:29 am**

Avatar aren't available in the UK, which I assume is where zooyork is as his web address is .co.uk. Tit.

EDIT: Never mind the fact the avatar cabs are clearly about a third as thick as the orange ones. I guess you decided to overlook that.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:37 am**

i think that there are fine cabinet makers in the UK as well.

it's just the huge front frame that makes the oranges look like that. maybe they use plywood that's 2 mm thicker, but that's it.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:00 am**

sick.bird wrote:i think that there are fine cabinet makers in the UK as well.

You're probably right there

sick.bird wrote:it's just the huge front frame that makes the oranges look like that. maybe they use plywood that's 2 mm thicker, but that's it.

The Avatar is built from 13 ply, the orange is built from 18 ply. Neither company specify how thick their ply layers are, so that isn't much help, but going by the wikipedia entry on ply wood, 1/10" would be a good guess.
1/10" in real money is 2.54mm, multiply that by the extra 5 ply, your looking at 12.7mm difference in thickness all the way round.
Be really useful if they actually told you their ply thicknesses though, I can't find the numbers anywhere. Anyone care to measure their Orange or Avatar?

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 5:35 am**

Orange - Poor mans Hiwatt.

I haven't used the newer EL84 powered amps but always found the 100w models of the 70's a one trick pony....and they look fucking horrible.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:00 am**

do avatar use the same wood? as far as I know orange are birch. My friend has an avatar, it's a lot easier to carry D: . At every point I have heard of avatar orange head users and orange cab orange head users Avatar has always been the lesser quality but still very good cabs and a choice for the lower budget.

The rectifier thing I am sorry about being vague. I heard they are better at rectifying. But maybe it was that they were jsut as good at for a cheaper price.

I never said valve rectifiers were not good. Was implying that I there may be a place where transistors are noted as being a better option then tubes.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:30 am**

z00york wrote:
I never said valve rectifiers were not good. Was implying that I there may be a place where transistors are noted as being a better option then tubes.

Well transistors are a better option than tubes 99.999... % of the time as they are small, don't generate shit loads of heat etc. etc.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:39 am**

evolu wrote:Orange - Poor mans Hiwatt.

I'm not sure I get this.
They don't sound alike to my ears, one bit.
Like 'em or hate 'em, Oranges are well built, so that doesn't explain what you mean.

Maybe this is just some "we're number one" talk, like "my Les Paul is better than your Travis Bean?"

I miss my old HiWatt terribly, especially because it had been hotrodded by Steve Carr before he started Carr Amps. However, it wasn't *better* than an Orange or a MatAmp, just different.

-A

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:41 am**

orange is definitely not a poor mans hiwatt :/ , they are pretty much opposite in sound.

I have never perceived Orange amps as being expensive compared to lots of other amp companies (from a UK perspective). I bought mine because of the price, comparing the Orange Rocker30 to what else I could get for around £500, the 212 cab I got £140 pounds cheaper through a deal, I probably would not have spent the £400 or whatever it was If I had not got a deal.

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:41 am**

alex maiolo wrote:Well, the Pro Jr is 15watts (right?) and the AC30 is 30watts. The Tiny Terror is 15watts, but...um..."different" watts from the Pro Jr., for simplicity's sake.
So, the comparison would best be made between the TT and your Pro Jr, not with the AC30. The TT is sorta like a half power version of the AC30.

Also for simplicity's sake, plug into a solid state 30w amp, then plug into that AC30 and you'll see the "watts differenc" in about 10 seconds.

Here's some stuff about amp classes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier

Also, board member Scott is an invaluable resource for stuff like this. I bet a search in the Tech Room will find many posts on this subject.

A 1x12 will be very loud. A 2x12 will push more air. It will be louder, and just as important, *seem* louder and more spatial.
Using the TT to drive two cabs or just a 2x12 will probably get you loud enough to do most things, certainly practice, and it'll get through any gig where you can mic up the amp.

In the latter case, this is a great amp because soundmen often bitch that the guitar is too loud, and spoils the house mix. They'll tell you to turn down, and when you do, the amp loses it's dynamics. I like my Matchless because I can practice in 15 or 30w mode, as needed, but run it in the 15w mode at a gig, which allows me to turn it up loud enough to drive it, but it's still quiet enough to allow the soundman to mix me properly, if that makes sense.
With the TT, if I want real balls in a small space, I can switch it to 7w, and CRANK it. I'll get the dynamics of an amp pushed to the brink, but the soundman won't complain about stage volume. Haven't done that yet, but I bet it will come up one day.

Concerning that:
For a short while, I played with a guy who had to turn his Fender Twin up to 5 to get "his sound."
The rest of us were spread out over the PA nicely, but he was so low in the mix, due to his stage volume, that he was barely in the monitors. The left side of the stage was just a wash of him, whereas the right was almost absent of his parts.
Plus he was a dick.

Hope all of that helps.

-A

PS- 100 people? That's not so small. Nice work, man. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've been in a band that outnumbers the crowd. These days I'm playing to 50-150 people and I'm super pleased about it.

thanks. we are playing right now to 50-150, sometimes for more (we played at a theathre some months ago to 300+, it was great) let me explain my situation more directly:
here is pretty common in some pubs and bars where we play when there is no soundman. so, we just rent a PA, a mixer and the voice goes to there. we dont mike anything. we played two times in these situations and indeed, the volume in my fender pro jr was not enough. i would like to get another amp and i´m always worried about this.
we also played ( in that theatre with 300+ people, big place) with a fender deluxe reverb II that a friend gave to me. 15 watts to i guess, but it was RIDICULOUSLY loud. like, we didnt even need any pa because everybody could hear it. so i would like something that can be used without problems without being miked up, and that, when miked up, sounds relatively good.
probably will finish getting a vox ac-30, or a laney..

Posted: **Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:41 pm**

Jose, I think you just need to get an extension cabinet. I've just read the manual for the Pro Junior, and it says you can use an extension cab rated at 8 ohms.

I'm a big fan of Celestion Vintage 30's. They're more efficient than a lot of guitar 'speakers, so you'll get more volume. I've searched for info about the 'speaker that's in the Pro Junior, but cannot find any information about its efficiency.

However, the Vintage 30 is 3dB more efficient/sensitive than the Celestion G12T-75, which equates roughly to the same difference in volume between a 50W and 100W amp.

If you know anyone with an 8 ohm cab, try running your amp through it.

Hope this helps.

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