Nina wrote:

tocharian wrote:

Nina wrote:By your lovely characterization of him as a "fuckhead," it's clear to me that you don't know him. I don't think of you as a "fuckhead" because you defend the fucking crappy shit that Justice puts out. You like them, that's cool. I don't have to listen to them. C'est la vie, no?.

Nina, if you call people that disagree with you nutbags and idiots, especially if they try to respond to you respectfully and thoughtfully, you're a fuckhead.

Dang, man, I know I like what many would consider shit-tastic music, but it's not like I'm posting 10 new electro remix threads every day.

It's all about choice, baby. You don't have to read any of the threads he starts, or the posts he posts.

I made a choice a long time ago to get to know him away from public view. I'm glad I did because he is indeed one of the nicest and most polite men that I have had the pleasure of getting to know. I am fully aware that people here don't like me because of my choice to voice my opinion about him. Do I want to get to know those people who have such disdain for me just because I have chosen to get to know someone on a less superficial basis and have found them to not be a "fuckhead?"
Not really.

I'm sure Rick can be very personable one on one, and I do respect that you like him on a personal level, and I would never hold that against you, or anyone else who feels the same way, for that matter.

The thing is, Rick chooses to be deliberately spiteful and insulting, where it definitely isn't necessary, and, really, it just obscures any real point he is trying to make, and it completely derails any real discussion or dialogue.

If he honestly believes what he posts, and I think he does, then it is sad that he feels the need to bully people into taking his position, and can't accept it when people have an honest disagreement, because it completely chokes off any possibility of a meaningful dialogue, or even, an agreement to disagree.

If the whole online persona is his version of "performance art", well, then, he's got the persona of a troll.

At this point, I have decided to not post anymore in any thread of his, no matter how interesting I find the subject matter, even if I think I truly have something to add to it, because I really don't like being pulled down, and/or allowing myself to be pulled down, to the level of a screaming child desperately trying to get his way.

If Rick decides to conduct himself in a civil manner, and he follows through and does conduct himself civilly, then I will reconsider in posting in threads he has started again.

I didn't want to have to pull these out but at this point I think the information contained in them is now very relevant. I think Ricky Bobby is a troll who purposely tries to get a rise out of people.

Here's a PM from "Clocker Bob" commending me on my posts. It is dated May 11, 2006.

clocker bob wrote:good job moving the bush rage along today, nice posting.

I can't look at the internet another second after today's news, so any followups you make, i'll look forward to them friday.

I need some fresh air.

CB

From May 29, 2006. I think I had taken some time away from participating in political discussions but then commented in a thread Bob had started.

clocker bob wrote:Hey El PT-

I'm not bumpin that thread again but i was wondering where you were so good to see you back.

CB

Here's a PM to "Clocker Bob" from August of 2006 after the last time we fought about how he presents his message because I had started to suspect he was a troll. Upon further reflection I decided I may have been wrong about that so I contacted him to explain myself.

Please note my humility and politeness even though it is neither humble nor polite to point that out.

El Protoolio wrote:Bob

We had a disagreement on the boards and for that I apologize. I do agree with you more often than not which is why I guess I was so hard on you. I've been thinking about it and I decided there is no real reason for me to attck your style. I'm not the final word on anything and it was wrong of me to tell you how to behave. Stupid and ridiculous even.

Anyway, you haven't been around in awhile so I thought I'd send you a PM. I do appreciate the information that you put out there and would hate to see it stop. I hope your absence has had nothing to do with our spat. If I'm giving myself too much credit and you're just busy, then I apologize for thinking it had to do with me. If it did, please let it go and come back full throttle.

Your pal
El Protoolio

I was wrong to send this. I had been right about him in the first place and should have stuck to that. Anyway, here is his response.

clocker bob wrote:hey EPT-

All is fine. I'm not posting on the board and I don't think I will again, but it's no fault of yours, although I was fighting too many personal battles there in general, and that isn't the way to be an effective activist. I'm killing the clock at work on a few other forums and enjoying the break from the EA forum, where I was letting propagandists like Galanter keep me in a state of rage from the time I logged in. That wasn't healthy, but avoiding him wasn't an option, because he was in every thread I wanted to enjoy.

CB

I sure can relate to that last sentence.

He did come back and I publicly welcomed him. He then PM'd me this on September 21st, 2006

clocker bob wrote:Thanks for the welcome- i'm probably not back to the same degree though- it's too much copy and paste work to be active in as many threads as I was previously. I'm on the computer so much at work, plus reading all the sites I check ( and also doing a couple of recording projects ), that my eyes were wearing down and books I wanted to read were piling up; something had to go for a while. I read eight books in my month off, and that was excellent, but now I need to get back on the ulcer horse, resume internet conflict, and be somebody's pariah again. Lucky EA forum, especially Galanter.

CB

Anyway as we all know he did come back to the full degree and for a long time I ignored him because even though I didn't like his style I thought that he at least cared about what he was posting. Turns out he didn't care as "Clocker Bob" was all just "performance art". The content didn't matter to him, just the style of "pissing off the fake liberals".

So last June or July he switched over to "Rick Reuban" and got into a fight with Nerbly Bear about 9/11. The two of them bombarded the forum with new threads and resurrected old threads in the interest of detracting attention from each other. I thought that was kind of nuts.

Then I watched while he got more and more nasty to people who disagreed with him and seemed to be purposefully trolling the board. So last week I changed my mind and decided to call bullshit on him. Not because I am the final judge as to what is and what is not proper behavior, although ad hominem attacks never win a debate, but because I have seen him for what he really is - a bullying troll who revels in the conflict he creates.

I think Ricky Bobby is full of shit. Does he want to be an effective activist? Or does he just care about the fight, being right and humiliating his opponents? Is Ricky Bobby in pursuit of the truth or is he just pursuing dominance over the direction of discussions he happens to be interested in? Does Bob really think I am a hypocrite or is he just upset that I have called bullshit on his trolling? Could I be wrong about him being a troll and he is just upset because he respected me and my opinions but when I refused to march in lockstep with him he felt hurt and angry so has lashed out against me? If so, how does that explain how he talks to others?

I think Ricky Bobby is playing everyone for fools. His purpose is to troll. Every time you respond to him you feed the troll. I, for one, am done responding to him. I have not gone quietly in the interest of helping out others who get caught up into his bullshit. I used to defend him thinking he was at least genuine in his feelings about what he talked about. But he wasn't.

Free speech is a right, but it is also a responsibility. Abusing that principle is irresponsible. Taking advantage of a message board that is a shrine to that principle to pursue one's own selfish agenda by turning it into one's personal blog is irresponsible. Taking advantage of that same board so you can get your rocks off by insulting other people is irresponsible. It means you are just a name calling bully.

It seems to me that regardless of how he conducts himself in person to a few members of the board deep down he is probably an abusive bully. His anonymity has allowed him to reveal himself for who he truly is. If some people choose to ignore it that is their choice. Personally I respect people who present themselves as they really are and discuss the things they are passionate about while being compassionate for others feelings. I don't respect dishonesty or insincerity or a cold disregard for the feelings of others. Nor do I respect anyone, regardless of their political views, who purposely troll and bully just to get their rocks off. I come to this board because most of the usual posters share my tastes and sense of humor. I like a lot of the people who post here and as I have said know a lot of them personally. They are all the same in person as they are on this board. Except, supposedly, Ricky Bobby.

So fuck you Ricky Bobby. Fuck you online and fuck you in person.

[i.maginary c.locker b.ob t.hread t.itle]...

C/NC: New Clocker Bob/Rick Reuben Name - "RIKKI CLOXX"


[/i.c.b.t.t.]

Boombats wrote:[i.maginary c.locker b.ob t.hread t.itle]...

C/NC: New Clocker Bob/Rick Reuben Name - "RIKKI CLOXX"


[/i.c.b.t.t.]

That sounds like the androgynous frontman of a hair metal band.

W4LTR: Bear Into Cleveland Steamers

El Protoolio wrote:His purpose is to troll.

I don't think this is true.

I think he's got a lot to say and he honestly believes it is true. Sure, he comes across as crazy a lot of the time but he's not here just to offend people, which I think excludes him from being a troll.

I've had a lot of polite exchanges with Rick/Bob that you couldn't have with a troll. A troll would take any opportunity to offend you. On the very, very few subjects I agree with him on, he's nothing but cordial. If he believes everything he posts is the truth, I know why he loses his patience because I do the same. I am 100% certain there is no God but if I chose to spend every day arguing with people who were convinced of the existence of God, I'd become frustrated because I know for a fact on this particular subject I am right. It's the same thing with Bob. He's convinced he's right. The only difference is that for whatever reason he actually wants to argue about his pet peeve.

Honestly, I find 90% of what he posts to be absurd but you don't have to argue with him about it. He's not going to change his mind and you're not going to change yours. It's best to leave him be. He's not actually inflicting harm on anyone or anything. He's just posting some thoughts on an internet forum.

El Protoolio wrote:I didn't want to have to pull these out but at this point I think the information contained in them is now very relevant. I think Ricky Bobby is a troll who purposely tries to get a rise out of people.

Here's a PM from "Clocker Bob" commending me on my posts. It is dated May 11, 2006.

clocker bob wrote:good job moving the bush rage along today, nice posting.

I can't look at the internet another second after today's news, so any followups you make, i'll look forward to them friday.

I need some fresh air.

CB

From May 29, 2006. I think I had taken some time away from participating in political discussions but then commented in a thread Bob had started.

clocker bob wrote:Hey El PT-

I'm not bumpin that thread again but i was wondering where you were so good to see you back.

CB

Here's a PM to "Clocker Bob" from August of 2006 after the last time we fought about how he presents his message because I had started to suspect he was a troll. Upon further reflection I decided I may have been wrong about that so I contacted him to explain myself.

Please note my humility and politeness even though it is neither humble nor polite to point that out.

El Protoolio wrote:Bob

We had a disagreement on the boards and for that I apologize. I do agree with you more often than not which is why I guess I was so hard on you. I've been thinking about it and I decided there is no real reason for me to attck your style. I'm not the final word on anything and it was wrong of me to tell you how to behave. Stupid and ridiculous even.

Anyway, you haven't been around in awhile so I thought I'd send you a PM. I do appreciate the information that you put out there and would hate to see it stop. I hope your absence has had nothing to do with our spat. If I'm giving myself too much credit and you're just busy, then I apologize for thinking it had to do with me. If it did, please let it go and come back full throttle.

Your pal
El Protoolio

I was wrong to send this. I had been right about him in the first place and should have stuck to that. Anyway, here is his response.

clocker bob wrote:hey EPT-

All is fine. I'm not posting on the board and I don't think I will again, but it's no fault of yours, although I was fighting too many personal battles there in general, and that isn't the way to be an effective activist. I'm killing the clock at work on a few other forums and enjoying the break from the EA forum, where I was letting propagandists like Galanter keep me in a state of rage from the time I logged in. That wasn't healthy, but avoiding him wasn't an option, because he was in every thread I wanted to enjoy.

CB

I sure can relate to that last sentence.

He did come back and I publicly welcomed him. He then PM'd me this on September 21st, 2006

clocker bob wrote:Thanks for the welcome- i'm probably not back to the same degree though- it's too much copy and paste work to be active in as many threads as I was previously. I'm on the computer so much at work, plus reading all the sites I check ( and also doing a couple of recording projects ), that my eyes were wearing down and books I wanted to read were piling up; something had to go for a while. I read eight books in my month off, and that was excellent, but now I need to get back on the ulcer horse, resume internet conflict, and be somebody's pariah again. Lucky EA forum, especially Galanter.

CB

Anyway as we all know he did come back to the full degree and for a long time I ignored him because even though I didn't like his style I thought that he at least cared about what he was posting. Turns out he didn't care as "Clocker Bob" was all just "performance art". The content didn't matter to him, just the style of "pissing off the fake liberals".

So last June or July he switched over to "Rick Reuban" and got into a fight with Nerbly Bear about 9/11. The two of them bombarded the forum with new threads and resurrected old threads in the interest of detracting attention from each other. I thought that was kind of nuts.

Then I watched while he got more and more nasty to people who disagreed with him and seemed to be purposefully trolling the board. So last week I changed my mind and decided to call bullshit on him. Not because I am the final judge as to what is and what is not proper behavior, although ad hominem attacks never win a debate, but because I have seen him for what he really is - a bullying troll who revels in the conflict he creates.

I think Ricky Bobby is full of shit. Does he want to be an effective activist? Or does he just care about the fight, being right and humiliating his opponents? Is Ricky Bobby in pursuit of the truth or is he just pursuing dominance over the direction of discussions he happens to be interested in? Does Bob really think I am a hypocrite or is he just upset that I have called bullshit on his trolling? Could I be wrong about him being a troll and he is just upset because he respected me and my opinions but when I refused to march in lockstep with him he felt hurt and angry so has lashed out against me? If so, how does that explain how he talks to others?

I think Ricky Bobby is playing everyone for fools. His purpose is to troll. Every time you respond to him you feed the troll. I, for one, am done responding to him. I have not gone quietly in the interest of helping out others who get caught up into his bullshit. I used to defend him thinking he was at least genuine in his feelings about what he talked about. But he wasn't.

Free speech is a right, but it is also a responsibility. Abusing that principle is irresponsible. Taking advantage of a message board that is a shrine to that principle to pursue one's own selfish agenda by turning it into one's personal blog is irresponsible. Taking advantage of that same board so you can get your rocks off by insulting other people is irresponsible. It means you are just a name calling bully.

It seems to me that regardless of how he conducts himself in person to a few members of the board deep down he is probably an abusive bully. His anonymity has allowed him to reveal himself for who he truly is. If some people choose to ignore it that is their choice. Personally I respect people who present themselves as they really are and discuss the things they are passionate about while being compassionate for others feelings. I don't respect dishonesty or insincerity or a cold disregard for the feelings of others. Nor do I respect anyone, regardless of their political views, who purposely troll and bully just to get their rocks off. I come to this board because most of the usual posters share my tastes and sense of humor. I like a lot of the people who post here and as I have said know a lot of them personally. They are all the same in person as they are on this board. Except, supposedly, Ricky Bobby.

So fuck you Ricky Bobby. Fuck you online and fuck you in person.

tommydyski wrote:El Protoolio wrote:
His purpose is to troll.

I don't think this is true.

I think he's got a lot to say and he honestly believes it is true. Sure, he comes across as crazy a lot of the time but he's not here just to offend people, which I think excludes him from being a troll.

I've had a lot of polite exchanges with Rick/Bob that you couldn't have with a troll. A troll would take any opportunity to offend you. On the very, very few subjects I agree with him on, he's nothing but cordial. If he believes everything he posts is the truth, I know why he loses his patience because I do the same. I am 100% certain there is no God but if I chose to spend every day arguing with people who were convinced of the existence of God, I'd become frustrated because I know for a fact on this particular subject I am right. It's the same thing with Bob. He's convinced he's right. The only difference is that for whatever reason he actually wants to argue about his pet peeve.

Honestly, I find 90% of what he posts to be absurd but you don't have to argue with him about it. He's not going to change his mind and you're not going to change yours. It's best to leave him be. He's not actually inflicting harm on anyone or anything. He's just posting some thoughts on an internet forum.

Nina wrote:I made a choice a long time ago to get to know him away from public view. I'm glad I did because he is indeed one of the nicest and most polite men that I have had the pleasure of getting to know. I am fully aware that people here don't like me because of my choice to voice my opinion about him. Do I want to get to know those people who have such disdain for me just because I have chosen to get to know someone on a less superficial basis and have found them to not be a "fuckhead?"
Not really.

I'm with El Protoolio.

What good is it that someone is "really nice in person" when they consistently and determinedly behave like a pure cunt to people in a forum? If the only interaction you will realistically have with a person is through an online forum, then that's how you're going to form an opinion on them and judge them. It's the only way you are able to judge them, or have an opinion on them.

With this in mind, "Fuckhead" seems fair enough.

Bollocks to this lazy "he's just posting his opinions" lark. He is committed only to being disingenuous and antagonistic. That's troll behaviour.

I only feel bad for finding the term "Fuckhead" appropriate because I think he may be mentally ill. This last sentiment is not a joke.

Although the subject of the thread was a better premise, as opposed to beating up on a guy, there have been plenty of threads of personal persecution. Scott can attest to that. They are kind of boring and lame in the end. I thought it was going to more like the post your own onion headlines thread. Whatever. Something tells me he'll get through it.

To my understanding, a troll is someone who is deliberately being as antagonistic and offensive as possible to get a rise out of people.

If Bob is doing that, he's picked an incredibly roundabout way of doing it if you think about it. Spending so much time looking for quotes. Building those massive posts with his giant text and images. If his sole purpose was to piss people off, he could do it by calling them names and stuff. It's not hard, we've all seen it done. You just quote literally whatever another person has posted and call them a cunt. Simple as that. Why go to all the trouble he does?

If you want to say Bob is barking mad. I'll agree.
If you want to say Bob is infuriating to argue with. I'll agree.
If you want to say Bob is sometimes downright rude to people when he argues. I'll agree.
If you think his sole purpose of coming here is to annoy the other people, we'll have to agree to disagree.

greg wrote:Although the subject of the thread was a better premise, as opposed to beating up on a guy, there have been plenty of threads of personal persecution. Scott can attest to that. They are kind of boring and lame in the end. I thought it was going to more like the post your own onion headlines thread. Whatever. Something tells me he'll get through it.

Yeah, that was the kind of idea I was going for.

I feel really bad now.

Sorry Bob.