dontfeartheringo wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:30 am OH, here's a thing I discovered, Penningtron- That keystone acro I got from you? I was on the phone with another drum nerd buddy and he was telling me those are going for stupid money these days (the word is out on Acros, finally) and I said "Yeah, but they're still Acrolites. There's a million of them."

"Not the keystone ones, they have brass hoops."

I grabbed a magnet off of the refrigerator went out to the garage, and lo, so it was. Brass hoops! (which explains why it has a louder and clearer cross-stick than my Supra.)

Hah! A motherfucker came to my house once and lowballed me $75 saying it wasn't the brass version. Brass or triple flange or plastic I wasn't gonna let it go for less than I paid for it, and would rather sell it to a friend who'd give me reasonable money for it (which was you). In retrospect, yeah that snare packed a surprising wallop, and if the INDe mechanisms existed then I would have thrown one on and kept it. (the INDe Kalamazoo bronze snares is what prompted my question, and now that the pandemic gear-hoarding era has sorta died down maybe I'll grab a used one in the coming year)

I do like the hammered snares I've tried. Kind of the best of both worlds: loud, but more 'wood like' low end.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell a steel shell from a brass one, but I think aluminum I could differentiate. I'm not saying a difference doesn't exist and it's unmeaningful, just that I don't think I'd pick it out.

twelvepoint wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:53 pm I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell a steel shell from a brass one, but I think aluminum I could differentiate. I'm not saying a difference doesn't exist and it's unmeaningful, just that I don't think I'd pick it out.

The drummer in my band favors his Pork Pie BOB (black beauty knockoff). Sometimes I set up my steel Supralite next to his brass BOB and they sound pretty much the same.

losthighway wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:05 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:53 pm I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell a steel shell from a brass one, but I think aluminum I could differentiate. I'm not saying a difference doesn't exist and it's unmeaningful, just that I don't think I'd pick it out.

The drummer in my band favors his Pork Pie BOB (black beauty knockoff). Sometimes I set up my steel Supralite next to his brass BOB and they sound pretty much the same.

I am such a fucking OCD nerd. Here's the thing: the BOB is black nickel over brass and 1.3mm thick. Brass is less than 10% heavier than steel, but the shell is thicker, which adds more sustain. Cut down on mass, cut down on sustain, it dries out the tone. If your drummer is running a black dot or a P3 on the batter side of his BOB (which a lot of guys do because they go PING if they have smooth sides), then it's going to pretty damn similar to the Supralite. The 15" Supralite was the damn deal of the decade. Big, wide head for low fundamental. Dry, tight shell but with enough mass to be LOUD. Those are great noise rock drums and you can still pick them up for peanuts.

Here's one for less than $200, open box. It's the new Acro:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Open-Box/L ... 4004000.gc

WELL THAT WAS QUICK. One of you guys snagged it?

here's an 8x14 for right at $200:

https://reverb.com/p/ludwig-lw0814sl-su ... snare-drum

dontfeartheringo wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:30 am I find brass to be more sensitive even than bronze, btw. If you're not hearing enough of your ghost notes and rubs, brass acts a little like a compressor in that regard. My new hammered brass is the drum I've been waiting for. All my little drummer-y moves can now be heard from 25 feet away.

Yes to this right here, emphasis mine. I had my Supra, all of EA's delightful offerings (including the remarkable blue Jenkins + Martin), and still went with the earlier mentioned 90s Pearl free-floating 5" brass snare for the whole session in B last month. Die-cast hoops, G12 batter and 300 resonant heads, proper over-long snare wires for its goofy but bulletproof strainer, Tightscrew tension rods. Every few takes Scott would say "Want to check that snare?" and I'd tweak two or four rods by maybe 1/8 turn and off we'd go. Rim shots sounded like a .308, a double-stroke roll that crescendos over about 30 seconds from silence to ff went from tight and papery to a neck-break THWACK with all the nuance in between, ghost notes are spooky, flams aren't smeared. I love that drum, and it's totally because it's brass. I love the KANNGG around 860Hz that one could mitigate but one doesn't necessarily need to, I love the depth you can get even with brushes when you dig in. I love its dumb overbuilt-ness. I just keep coming back to it.

The 6-1/2" seems slightly more available (and is more expensive), though not as ubiquitous as the piccolo, which is not the one you want. Here's a 5" for $400 that someone went and put a wooden hoop on for some reason like it's for needlepoint or something.

Side notes: that G12 batter head made it the whole four days. It was about done after the show the night after the session, but it's a great head. And I've been crazy for Tightscrews since Jake Cregger told me about them after I watched him put on a clinic in rim shots with Multicult.

I do want some of that hammered action. And I loved the Jenkins + Martin. And yeah, I still really want a Black Beauty. But I spend too much on consumable wood, mylar, and B20 bronze to pick up a snare habit.

Speaking of woody thump and the Pearl Free Floating snare, allow me to posit:

dontfeartheringo wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:03 pm Supralite.

The Supralites are cool and stupid cheap. (the Pearl Sensitone Steels are basically the same thing but harder to get excited about). I get a lot of initial brightness out of mine but would agree it doesn't sustain for days. I really don't need anything 'better' (upgraded with INDe throw and Puresound Blaster), though I'd imagine the aluminum core of a real Supra makes it a little more lively if doing a true side by side comparison (Supras I get to play always have dry heads on them for some reason). And if we're talking aluminum, I do have a slight preference of 8 lug snares to 10. Dammit, watch me end up getting another Acrolite.. (a hammered one would be fun...)

Oh for fuck's sake, now you've got me looking at drum shells and I have a question for the experts (read: FM DFTR):

My main drum these days is a 70s Supraphonic 5x14 with the pointy b/o badge. I'd assumed it was a steel shell but - I just discovered - a little rare earth magnet doesn't really stick to it. Is that brass, or did Ludwig use some alloy that was chrome plated? I didn't think CoB extended into the b/o era so I'm a little confused.

twelvepoint wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:13 am Oh for fuck's sake, now you've got me looking at drum shells and I have a question for the experts (read: FM DFTR):

My main drum these days is a 70s Supraphonic 5x14 with the pointy b/o badge. I'd assumed it was a steel shell but - I just discovered - a little rare earth magnet doesn't really stick to it. Is that brass, or did Ludwig use some alloy that was chrome plated? I didn't think CoB extended into the b/o era so I'm a little confused.

It's chrome-over-alloy usually referred to as COA

Garth wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:19 am

twelvepoint wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:13 am Oh for fuck's sake, now you've got me looking at drum shells and I have a question for the experts (read: FM DFTR):

My main drum these days is a 70s Supraphonic 5x14 with the pointy b/o badge. I'd assumed it was a steel shell but - I just discovered - a little rare earth magnet doesn't really stick to it. Is that brass, or did Ludwig use some alloy that was chrome plated? I didn't think CoB extended into the b/o era so I'm a little confused.

It's chrome-over-alloy usually referred to as COA

Thanks. Basically a shinier acrolite with two extra lugs to have to screw around with!