6-4-3 wrote:But I know I'm right about this.

6-4-3 wrote:

Mattw = clueless

Listen, Mattw: I apologize for the "clueless" post. For the record, though, I probably would say this to your face if we were debating this in person. Sorry, nonetheless.

But I know I'm right about this. It seems that the three in three hundred who wouldn't say "Jane Fonda" is the posterchild for the anti-Vietnam war movement are on this board. No debate, no matter how long is going to change their minds.
Regardless, this is not what the intial post was about, it's just where it's evolved.

I find it curious that anytime a political topic is brought up on this board, the left jump on anything middle of the road or to the right quicker than a virgin on a cock on her wedding night. All common sense seems to be tossed out with the bathwater in defense of the liberal point of view with tallons out - including, of all topics - Hanoi Jane fuckin' Fonda!

I marvel at it. Not just here, but anywhere I get into debates over a few beers, tunes or innings with friends. There's no give. There's little rationalizing. There's no acceptance whatsoever of another viewpoint. Just staunch opposition and irrational jabs to the contrary's education, upbringing, motives, etc.

I believe (as the majority of Americans believe) that Jane Fonda was a pig for what she did and should be vilified for her actions back then. Call a spade a spade, for chrissakes. Yet, I and the majority who see this issue as black and white, are regarded as uneducated, redneck, right-winged fuck-alls?

This seems like such a lay-up issue for most anyone to at least, moderately agree with. But even this pooh-ba, millionaire, VC-lover, has-been actress gets a pass.

Fuck that. (Can't wait to read the responses to this!)

6-4-3 wrote:I believe (as the majority of Americans believe) that Jane Fonda was a pig for what she did and should be vilified for her actions back then. Call a spade a spade, for chrissakes. Yet, I and the majority who see this issue as black and white, are regarded as uneducated, redneck, right-winged fuck-alls?

The last time Jane Fonda was in the news, a little more than a year ago, a doctored photograph placed her next to John Kerry at a 1970s antiwar rally she hadn't even attended -- a trick meant to hurt Kerry's presidential chances by linking him to the woman nicknamed Hanoi Jane. But just a month later, a poll by the nonpartisan Annenberg Public Policy Center turned up some startling results. Asked to identify people mentioned during the campaign, 40 percent of the respondents thought of Fonda as an actress and only 20 percent as an antiwar activist. So much for her status as political poison.

Angus Jung wrote:Who's got the sack to spit in the face of Muhammad "I got nothing against the Viet Cong" Ali?

Lazybones wrote:Fuck Hanoi Jane... remember Hanoi Rocks?

[Broadcast]

This is Jane Fonda. During my two week visit in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, I've had the opportunity to visit a great many places and speak to a large number of people from all walks of life- workers, peasants, students, artists and dancers, historians, journalists, film actresses, soldiers, militia girls, members of the women's union, writers.

I visited the (Dam Xuac) agricultural coop, where the silk worms are also raised and thread is made. I visited a textile factory, a kindergarten in Hanoi. The beautiful Temple of Literature was where I saw traditional dances and heard songs of resistance. I also saw unforgettable ballet about the guerrillas training bees in the south to attack enemy soldiers. The bees were danced by women, and they did their job well.

In the shadow of the Temple of Literature I saw Vietnamese actors and actresses perform the second act of Arthur Miller's play All My Sons, and this was very moving to me- the fact that artists here are translating and performing American plays while US imperialists are bombing their country.

I cherish the memory of the blushing militia girls on the roof of their factory, encouraging one of their sisters as she sang a song praising the blue sky of Vietnam- these women, who are so gentle and poetic, whose voices are so beautiful, but who, when American planes are bombing their city, become such good fighters.

I cherish the way a farmer evacuated from Hanoi, without hesitation, offered me, an American, their best individual bomb shelter while US bombs fell near by. The daughter and I, in fact, shared the shelter wrapped in each others arms, cheek against cheek. It was on the road back from Nam Dinh, where I had witnessed the systematic destruction of civilian targets- schools, hospitals, pagodas, the factories, houses, and the dike system.

As I left the United States two weeks ago, Nixon was again telling the American people that he was winding down the war, but in the rubble- strewn streets of Nam Dinh, his words echoed with sinister (words indistinct) of a true killer. And like the young Vietnamese woman I held in my arms clinging to me tightly- and I pressed my cheek against hers- I thought, this is a war against Vietnam perhaps, but the tragedy is America's.

One thing that I have learned beyond a shadow of a doubt since I've been in this country is that Nixon will never be able to break the spirit of these people; he'll never be able to turn Vietnam, north and south, into a neo- colony of the United States by bombing, by invading, by attacking in any way. One has only to go into the countryside and listen to the peasants describe the lives they led before the revolution to understand why every bomb that is dropped only strengthens their determination to resist. I've spoken to many peasants who talked about the days when their parents had to sell themselves to landlords as virtually slaves, when there were very few schools and much illiteracy, inadequate medical care, when they were not masters of their own lives.

But now, despite the bombs, despite the crimes being created- being committed against them by Richard Nixon, these people own their own land, build their own schools- the children learning, literacy- illiteracy is being wiped out, there is no more prostitution as there was during the time when this was a French colony. In other words, the people have taken power into their own hands, and they are controlling their own lives.

And after 4,000 years of struggling against nature and foreign invaders- and the last 25 years, prior to the revolution, of struggling against French colonialism- I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh.

[recording ends]

6-4-3 wrote:
I find it curious that anytime a political topic is brought up on this board, the left jump on anything middle of the road or to the right quicker than a virgin on a cock on her wedding night.