Minotaur029 wrote:Bonds had an unfair advantage over Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron. Bonds took performance enhancers because he was apparently pissed off at all the attention McGwire and Sosa were getting (Sports Illustrated...the Game of Shadows article). This just sucks.

Please tell me you realize that McGwire and Sosa were juiced to fuckin' high hell when they went after Maris' record.

Christopher J. McGarvey wrote:

Minotaur029 wrote:Bonds had an unfair advantage over Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron. Bonds took performance enhancers because he was apparently pissed off at all the attention McGwire and Sosa were getting (Sports Illustrated...the Game of Shadows article). This just sucks.

Please tell me you realize that McGwire and Sosa were juiced to fuckin' high hell when they went after Maris' record.

Right, which is why (one reason) Bonds wanted in on the doping action (<- again, see the SI article).

You must think I'm pretty dumb, Chris. I only came here to talk about the future, not the past. Get it?


(And in a fit of self-contradiction...) Jeremy, I just like the idea that modern ballplayers can still play against a crazily long history statistically. 100+ years of history...a history of summer in the city.

And they'll play a full slate of games today. He's really tainted the game....

Minotaur029 wrote:I voted CRAP. Cheating has been around since the beginning of the game, but I still view baseball as a game of history and purity.

***

The new records are under debate...they are tainted.

Baseball is a game that (in my mind) should evolve as little as possible. It's not so different from baseball a century ago. To compare (in my opinion), American football players are welcome to take all the drugs they want until their bodies break down immediately after their careers are finished. That is a game of evolution...a game that hardly resembles football from like...the '40s. It's a Roman-esque circus...so let the crowds have their Pepsi/Doritos/Budweiser/blood.

In contrast, I wish that baseball could have remained pure...that Bonds' incredible talent could have spoken for itself...instead of tainting those impossible, incredible records.

Cribbed from elsewhere, because lard knows that I wouldn't have been assed to put it together myself:

Juiced balls
Maple bats
Batting gloves
Kinesiology
Medical science
Ben Gay
Weight Training
Pilates
Steroids (nee Steriods)
hGH
Magic Elbow Pads (only applies to Bonds)
Bat Donuts (applies to everyone but Frank Thomas - rebar goes way back)
No Spit Balls
No Tobacco Darkened balls
Scuffed balls replaced during play
Travel accomodations
MRIs
Video
Expansion era
Smaller Stadiums
Lower Pitcher's Mound
Dimpled Bat Tips
Thin Bat Handles
Pitcher Inning Reduction
UnderArmor
Improved Stadium Lights
Designated Hitter
162 Game Season

Who's up for a game of rounders?

^Right, I said that cheating had been a part of the game since the beginning...and that baseball should change as little as possible...even though changes are inevitable, it would be nice if said changes remained small.

Chemically engineering your body secretly to hit more home runs...I just think that sucks.

80+% of that list isn't "cheating" it's improvement in technology. Technology is changing the game as much as anything, not cheating.

Anyway, all arguments aside, I'm more interested in seeing if he'll play next season to go for 3,000 career hits.

alandeus wrote:80+% of that list isn't "cheating" it's improvement in technology. Technology is changing the game as much as anything, not cheating.

Again, I realize this. I don't need everybody to dress up in baggy uniforms and shit, I'm just saying that it still makes sense to me for old players like Ruth to be compared statistically to new ones...chemically enhancing your body with drugs you shoot up into your ass-cheeks ruins the fun. Technology is inevitable...aerodynamic helmets (?!) and so forth...but the bats are still wooden, and Wrigley Field is 2,000 years old.

If you're not supposed to have a giant head and an impossible torso...it really hurts the game for me. We thought those guys hit those '98 home runs legitimately. Now we know that stuff was illegitimate. Barry went from being an all around fantastic player...to a home run hitting behemoth who may have even been irrelevant to the game without the transition into a strict power hitter as many as like...(high-balling here) 5 years ago (yes, Bonds hit 73 about 5 years ago).

Minotaur029 wrote:Chemically engineering your body secretly to hit more home runs...I just think that sucks.

As opposed to Ruth publicly chemically engineering his body by being drunk all the time and eating a shit ton of hot dogs.
Aaron had a secret advantage as well because we all know black people are better athletes than white people.
After A-Rod gets his * for using HGH, the next HR champ will get an asterisk for not even being 100% human.

You're right, it really does make one think when you see a player posting his two highest career slugging percentages when he's 37 and 39, or when a guy who never hit more than 39 homers in season jumps up to 61.

Hello, Hank Aaron and Roger Maris!

Cheating has been around since the beginning of the game, but I still view baseball as a game of history and purity.

This piece of paper is white, but I still view it as black.

The pitcher who threw the ball which ended up being 755 has been suspended for steroid use (unlike Bonds).

Numerous players in the league have been suspended for failing drug tests (unlike Bonds).

Jose Canseco has admitted to using steroids during his playing days and nobody has white washed him from the books, he's not a pariah.

I'm not saying Bonds never took anything illegal. I'm not saying he did either. It seems likely that he did but "seems likely" is not nearly enough reason to give a guy shit when he breaks one of the greatest records in sports.