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twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:10 am ...a lot of juvenile self centeredness, which may be an unfair take...

It's fair, but The Wall also had Vera, which is the best song on the record, and not juvenile in any way. It's almost like the song doesn't belong.

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:48 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:10 am ...a lot of juvenile self centeredness, which may be an unfair take...

It's fair, but The Wall also had Vera, which is the best song on the record, and not juvenile in any way. It's almost like the song doesn't belong.

Agree with all of this and I want to revisit The Wall and see how much of it truly falls into the Big Concept bucket and which songs were kinda shoehorned in.

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:30 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:48 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:10 am ...a lot of juvenile self centeredness, which may be an unfair take...

It's fair, but The Wall also had Vera, which is the best song on the record, and not juvenile in any way. It's almost like the song doesn't belong.

Agree with all of this and I want to revisit The Wall and see how much of it truly falls into the Big Concept bucket and which songs were kinda shoehorned in.

When looking at the track list (The Wall), nothing other than Vera stands out to me. It's a freaky little song. Roger Waters emotes without it seeming gross or icky or tactical. Probably his best vocal performance. Odd little beast.

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 2:30 pm

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:48 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:10 am ...a lot of juvenile self centeredness, which may be an unfair take...

It's fair, but The Wall also had Vera, which is the best song on the record, and not juvenile in any way. It's almost like the song doesn't belong.

Agree with all of this and I want to revisit The Wall and see how much of it truly falls into the Big Concept bucket and which songs were kinda shoehorned in.

The strong piano-ballad "Nobody's home" is another one like that. I think there are several good songs on the Wall but it goes off the deep end on side 4 and the overall concept with all the thematic ties and micro-songs etc makes it too big and overwhelming not to mention tedious... it's an album that's *less* than the sum of its parts IMO....

rsmurphy wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 10:00 amGay

You wish

rsmurphy wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 10:00 am

Barrett's infantile goofiness

Thank goodness somebody else said it - with his goofy ass.

Not all of his stuff was goofy, but I find a lot of it to be irritatingly twee.

"The Scarecrow" and "The Gnome" are roughly on par with Raffi. "Scream Thy Last Scream," with the chipmunk vocals, is unlistenable by me. "See Emily Play" is another one that seems like twee garbage.

penningtron wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:27 amEverybody had -some- fairy dust nonsense in '67 but the psych/rocking parts of Piper.. are great. Syd solo records are good as well but sometimes seem like we shouldn't be listening to them.

For sure, "Interstellar Overdrive" and "Astronomy Domine" and "Lucifer Sam" and "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun" are great proto-metal songs. "Pow R Toc H" is some crazy experimental noise. "Vegetable man" and "Remember Me" sound like something off a Nuggets comp.

But how much of that was purely down to Barrett's own artistry, and not the input of Wright, Gilmour, Waters and Mason?

Listen to the direction Floyd went after Barrett's departure. The goofy shit went away and they clearly matured as songwriters and experimentalists.

Meanwhile Barrett's solo stuff became sillier and sillier as his own mental state disintegrated.

I get what you mean by, "seem like we shouldn't be listening to them."

To me it's a little like looking at Monet's latter paintings from Givenchy while he was getting cataracts. The artist's own personal deterioration becomes the thematic center of the work, and it's a bit of a bummer.

AttackChimp wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:48 pm

twelvepoint wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:10 am ...a lot of juvenile self centeredness, which may be an unfair take...

It's fair, but The Wall also had Vera, which is the best song on the record, and not juvenile in any way. It's almost like the song doesn't belong.

100%

That song is so plaintive, and even moreso at this stage of my life when I can't help relating it to some dear friends of mine.

Most of The Wall is pretty lame though, IMO. I suspect they were doing way too much cocaine in that era.

Is there a thread for The Wall?

If not, then we should start a new one and move this discussion over there.

Roger Waters wrote a half-assed song on Piper that the band would use to jam, because it was like a verse and a half with some goofy ass beat. If I remember correctly, the version that made the album was actually trimmed down. That guy was not responsible for early Floyd's success (Syd's girlfriend sleeping with the UFO Club manager may have more to do with it than any musical chops). Richard Wright submitted the great track "Remember A Day" which Nick Mason couldn't play - the producer had to jump on the tubs to get it recorded. They would have been a pretty middling band if not for Syd's songwriting, wild rhythm guitar playing, and penchant for jamming; that last bit they would incorporate with Gilmour to try and write jams, a musical sin but Floyd fans love it. As it goes. Their recovery from losing Syd is laudable and Gilmour is a fine legato player, but not having been a teenager in the 70's, I can never buy into someone whose funk hand is as wooden as "Another Brick In The Wall" as a musical genius.

"Effervescent Elephant" is a children's song for sure, and its inclusion over other songs Syd had written at the time still seems kinda perplexing. Now, that said, it's far from as goofy as whatever the fuck Waters is on about with The Wall. The humor, playfulness, occasionally creepy adolescent vibes that crept into the music were not missteps. Hell, those are core tenant to good rock 'n roll! Prog rock's failure to understand that is one of the reasons it's gone the way of the dodo whilst there will always be a trashy band trying to resurrect The Cramps. I bet they could have rocked a very warped version of "See Emily Play."

"Remember A Day" is my favorite song from early period Floyd.

Gilmour's guitar genius is mostly in the note bending.

If you think prog rock has "gone the way of the dodo," you clearly haven't been listening to much of the rock music being produced by Gen Z. Prog and Jazz fusion are in a major renaissance right now.

JohnAlbert wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:04 am "See Emily Play" is another one that seems like twee garbage.

This is actually one of my favorite early PF/Syd songs. It is a nice song.

rsmurphy wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 6:54 am

JohnAlbert wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:04 am "See Emily Play" is another one that seems like twee garbage.

This is actually one of my favorite early PF/Syd songs. It is a nice song.

I'll give it another listen. I'm not really big into that '60s psychedelic pop though.

I forgot to mention it, but "Bike" is the one that really grates on my nerves.