^ That more or less is aligned with my thoughts.

DeSantis: sort of Trump-lite, tragically born without a personality, but also somehow a bigger homophobe. Ramaswamy might be the only one worse on that stage.

if elected, every single republican will do exactly the same shit Trump did. Perhaps with less belligerence, but effectively the same stuff.

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:47 am if elected, every single republican will do exactly the same shit Trump did. Perhaps with less belligerence, but effectively the same stuff.

Policy-wise? Probably.

In terms of subverting democracy? I don’t think so.

jfv wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:55 am

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:47 am if elected, every single republican will do exactly the same shit Trump did. Perhaps with less belligerence, but effectively the same stuff.

Policy-wise? Probably.

In terms of subverting democracy? I don’t think so.

Maybe I'm a little cynical here? I do believe going forward, a pattern is set for republicans to fight literally everything and label every defeat as a personal grievance, because, what do they have to lose? That Trump is still, after everything, the frontrunner, makes me believe that MAGA-style politics is here to stay with republicans.

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:14 am

jfv wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:55 am

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:47 am if elected, every single republican will do exactly the same shit Trump did. Perhaps with less belligerence, but effectively the same stuff.

Policy-wise? Probably.

In terms of subverting democracy? I don’t think so.

Maybe I'm a little cynical here? I do believe going forward, a pattern is set for republicans to fight literally everything and label every defeat as a personal grievance, because, what do they have to lose? That Trump is still, after everything, the frontrunner, makes me believe that MAGA-style politics is here to stay with republicans.

I don't think you're being overly cynical; as you alluded to, just look at who remains the most popular. That being said, I do see significant differences between the five republican candidates that were on stage (plus Trump), particularly in the rhetoric they use, and the ramifications if each were to get elected.

Things will stay on the same trajectory if there is a victory by Trump (likely).. or DeSantis.. or (ewww) Ramaswamy..

Scott seems to have a good temperament but is of the same mold as Pence or Mike Johnson. We don't need an evangelical president.

I think a victory by Haley or Christie will bring things back towards sanity, at least a little bit, but it'll take a minor miracle for either of them to win the nomination.

I will obviously be voting for whomever is the Democratic nominee in the general election (assumed to be Biden) but being from Illinois means that my vote in the primaries can actually make more of a difference.

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:14 am Maybe I'm a little cynical here? I do believe going forward, a pattern is set for republicans to fight literally everything and label every defeat as a personal grievance, because, what do they have to lose? That Trump is still, after everything, the frontrunner, makes me believe that MAGA-style politics is here to stay with republicans.

I agree. Even if nobody GOP candidates refusing to concede results seems like a stunt, it's becoming normalized within their party. Rick Santorum actually said out loud the other day that democracy wasn't good for Republicans.

Christie is coming out with guns blazing against Trump and MAGA Land. Props for that. Will probably mean he hasn't a snowballs chance, but I'd vote for him in a GOP primary.

Haley seems like a warmonger but I agree those two are better than the rest. DeSantis is just a jerk. Ramaswamy is a charlatan.

jfv wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:55 am

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:47 am if elected, every single republican will do exactly the same shit Trump did. Perhaps with less belligerence, but effectively the same stuff.

Policy-wise? Probably.

In terms of subverting democracy? I don’t think so.

Ahh, I think the subverting democracy is pretty much the GOP position these days.

jfv wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:55 am

twelvepoint wrote: Fri Nov 10, 2023 8:47 am if elected, every single republican will do exactly the same shit Trump did. Perhaps with less belligerence, but effectively the same stuff.

Policy-wise? Probably.

In terms of subverting democracy? I don’t think so.

Hard disagree, because it's been the entire party's explicit scheme for a while now. Massive gerrymandering. Use partisan courts to block legislation. If a municipality goes left, strip it of its legal authority. If you lose an election, cry fraud or push a recall. If possible, start stripping basic protections out of the constitution.

The GOP is fully aware that its policies are unpopular, which is why it intends to govern as a minority.

Palace coup in the UK this morning.

It was kind of pathetic.