Shurat wrote:Ok.

Gramsci wrote:Does anyone actually know anyone that has had this procedure?

Yes.

Cool, how's it working out for them?

Apparently you can actually make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

They're loving it.

And quite possibly lubing it.

Shurat wrote:Apparently you can actually make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

They're loving it.

And quite possibly lubing it.

Sounds good.


Man to lady or lady to man?

Gramsci wrote:

Shurat wrote:Apparently you can actually make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

They're loving it.

And quite possibly lubing it.

Sounds good.


Man to lady or lady to man?

Things to do, people to see...?

Read the fucking thread, fella.

Shurat wrote:

Gramsci wrote:

Shurat wrote:Apparently you can actually make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

They're loving it.

And quite possibly lubing it.

Sounds good.


Man to lady or lady to man?

Things to do, people to see...?

Read the fucking thread, fella.

Nah, I think I got the gist, thanks!

Linus Van Pelt wrote:

oxlongm wrote:Transgendered people feel an identification to a gender they weren't born into. I think you're asserting that this disconnect must be due to the social constructs and not the natural characteristics.

For the most part, yes. I think there is very little of "gender" that is biologically determined. There are people with penises who really feel that they ought to be giving birth to children. This is a disconnect that is not societal (perhaps). There might be a few other ones. But for the most part, gender is a social construct.

Obviously, it's important to delineate between 'gender' (the social construct) and 'sex' (the biological determinant). I'd say there is a marked difference between the societal construct of gender and the genital classification that governs an individual's sex. Both of these terms are commonly misused. It's important to not muddle the two, as this could lead to a confusion between tranvestism and transexuality, which are clearly two seperate things.

I don't think that gender-roles are a significant issue for people who want to change sex. I suspect they have greater desire to modify their sexual characteristics, rather than swap gender-roles--otherwise their problems would be easily solved by cross-dressing.

Cranius wrote:I don't think that gender-roles are a significant issue for people who want to change sex. I suspect they have greater desire to modify their sexual characteristics, rather than swap gender-roles--otherwise their problems would be easily solved by cross-dressing.

You might be right, but I'm not sure.

Okay, I will attempt to sum up my opinion on the matter:

Society pressures people to have their sex match their gender. People who are male-sexed and female-gendered, or those who are female-sexed and male-gendered, feel an enormous pressure from society, which causes many of them to be profoundly unhappy with the "mismatch." For some of them, the unhappiness and pressure is so great that it is preferable to change their sex to match their gender.

In other words, the need for a sex-change comes from two things: First, the "mismatch" between sex and gender, and second, the fact that such a "mismatch" causes profound unhappiness. The "mismatch" itself may be genetic, it may be chemical, it may be societal - I have no idea what might cause it, nor do I think it matters much. The fact that the "mismatch" causes unhappiness is basically caused by society, and also depends on the individual in question.

And of course, sex-changes are Not Crap, because they can relieve this profound unhappiness.

I don't expect everyone to agree, but does this seem reasonable?

Linus, you seem to have a vested interest in the subject. You argue very passionately.

Something we should know?

Gramsci wrote:Linus, you seem to have a vested interest in the subject. You argue very passionately.

Something we should know?

I think not.

Whether relieving a lifetime identity crisis, or just blowing $75,000 to see how the other half lives (I'm guessing this is rare), not crap.