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Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:25 pm
by Christopher J McGarvey_Archive
whiskerando wrote:Jose Canseco has admitted to using steroids during his playing days and nobody has white washed him from the books, he's not a pariah.
The real question here is whether or not his use of steroids helped him knock that home run in for Carlos Martinez.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:26 pm
by whiskerando_Archive
The real question here is whether or not his use of steroids helped him knock that home run in for Carlos Martinez.


I will never tire of that footage.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:27 pm
by o_d_m_Archive
I wish somebody would wash Canseco from the books. That guy was a douche and not that great of a player to boot.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:14 pm
by enframed_Archive
Germ War wrote:I think Gareth Keenan said it best.

As I'm not convinced Bonds was the only player using performance-enhancing drugs, I don't believe his accomplishments really "stain" the game the way people believe. Does it make it right? No. But, the fact remains that the huge presence of the media in this day and age makes it easy to skew your perception of a player, rightly or wrongly, and one has to wonder how that media influence would translate in a historical context.

I'm not suggesting Barry Bonds isn't an asshole. I am suggesting that he played within the limits of the game, and if anything, the steroid scandal is baseball's fault. Barry had a competitive advantage available to him (as did any other player, if they so chose), and he took it, all within the rules and guidelines allowed by the league.

Does it diminish his achievement? Possibly. But he owns the record, and as far as I'm concerned, the steroid era was a level playing field, simply by baseball's negligence for having established rules in place.

Long story short: Fuck Bud Selig.


that essentially how i feel. i was happy for him when i saw the footage on the news last night. other people in baseball have taken and are taking performance enhancing drugs, steroidal or not.

christ. this is a society in which is it not only permissible but advocated that we use pharmaceuticals to feel better, work (ie, handle stress) better, socialize better, sleep better, fuck better, shit better, etc. why shouldn't people be allowed to use them to play a sport better? utterly hypocritical.

put an asterisk by the record. start a separate stat for before and after steroids began. no one REALLY cares. they just care that someone is so fucking good as bonds, steroids or not. someday it will come out that 40% of baseball is juicing one thing or another, steroidal or otherwise.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:28 pm
by chopjob_Archive
Will Pedro Gomez now follow someone else around?

I say Yes.

I suggest Matt Stairs.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:53 pm
by Germ War_Archive
enframed wrote:put an asterisk by the record.


And that's where we disagree.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:14 pm
by STF_Archive
The record is his now. You can't attach an asterisk to it, but in the future people will intrepret its legitimacy in light of the era it was set in however they want. Personally, I'm a little conflicted, but I think the record will be tainted in the minds of many people.

For a long time before I knew about Roger Maris's entry in the record book I thought "the asterisk" was just an expression. In that case it's appropriate, if a bit demeaning. He had 8 extra games: a demonstrable advantage.

In Bonds's case, there is no way to measure or quantify the adavantage steroid use provides. Nor has he failed a drug test or broken a rule, though he has admitted to inadvertently taking steroids.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:19 pm
by Germ War_Archive
We can all, of course, overlook the fact that homerun #755 was hit off a pitcher who was busted for steroid use.

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:03 pm
by Christopher J McGarvey_Archive
Germ War wrote:We can all, of course, overlook the fact that homerun #755 was hit off a pitcher who was busted for steroid use.
What about the fact that he hit 756 off a pitcher from The Nationals?

Ballplayer-Human Being: Barry Bonds

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:15 pm
by madlee_Archive
I calculated and adjusted his total for the years of steroid usage. I have him at 660 HRs at this point in his career. He would be top 10 but not #1 without steroids.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml

prior to steroids, he was hitting around 30 HRs a season. I even gave him 30 for the last few non steroid, injury plagued years.

30 HRs x 22 seasons = 660.