TobiasTheCommie wrote:If you have any specific questions please ask.

My question: you joined the forum on February 9, 2007, and you were armed and loaded with info on the autism question. Are you part of the Eli Lilly 'rapid response' team that goes around the web trying to put out any Thimerosal brushfires?

I was going to post a long thing, but the commie guy covered it very well. Thanks. I believe that there is no real link to vaccines. I think it is a combination of genetics, in utero afflictions, and environmental factors (TV). Also, i think a great deal of the rise in Autism diagnoses has to do with increasing sophistication in the Medical industry in recognizing, diagnosing and treating it. This is partially driven by the Eductation industry finding ways to "treat" ASD kids earlier and earlier. The reason that Autism "turns up" when it does is because of the developmental milestones that come up between 24 and 36 months. Kids generally start talking more and better then, and socialization is expected to accelerate as well. Shortcomings in those areas begin to be evident around 3 years old. Maybe earlier if you are not in denial.

CBob, in some ways, doesn't appear to understand Autism. There is not test for autism, and there are now a broad spectrum of behavioral issues that are shoved under the banner of Autism Spectrum Disorders. The diagnosis is broader now than ever before, so it is no surprise that the frequency is increasing.

I will no doubt learn a great deal more about this in the coming years. My 3-year old is displaying some symptoms of ASD/PDD, and we are in the process of having him evaluated and diagnosed. He was born in 2003 and was given what we were assured were mercury-free vaccines. His 5 year old brother, born in 2001, was given all the vaccines and he has no developmental delays. Yet.

the$inmusicisallmine wrote:CBob, in some ways, doesn't appear to understand Autism. There is not test for autism, and there are now a broad spectrum of behavioral issues that are shoved under the banner of Autism Spectrum Disorders.

Thanks for reading the thread. Here's my description of how autism is diagnosed, from back on page two:

clocker bob earlier in this thread wrote:a diagnosis of autism is made by comparing the subject to a spectrum of known developmental disorders, so the diagnosis is somewhat a matter of interpretation, and not like seeing a fracture on an X Ray.

Bob, I read the scientific literature every day, and the autism-vaccine link has been thoroughly debunked. Most of the studies that demonstrated this were NOT tied to the industry, and you cannot change that simple fact by repeating your gossip-magazine conspiracies.

And as far as chelation therapy goes, it has been shown to have some effect in the treatment of heavy metal poisoning. However, with regard to heart disease and the other supposed "benefits" of chelation therapy, the only studies to have EVER demonstrated ANY effect lacked comparator groups. In fact, studies that compare chelation with placebo have demonstrated that it has no benefit whatsoever. Furthermore, chelation hasn't been shown to help with autism, either.

Wood Goblin wrote:Bob, I read the scientific literature every day, and the autism-vaccine link has been thoroughly debunked.

Opinion.

Most of the studies that demonstrated this were NOT tied to the industry

Lie.

, and you cannot change that simple fact by repeating your gossip-magazine conspiracies.

And that shows your bias.

clocker bob wrote:

Wood Goblin wrote:Bob, I read the scientific literature every day, and the autism-vaccine link has been thoroughly debunked.

Opinion.

Most of the studies that demonstrated this were NOT tied to the industry

Lie.

, and you cannot change that simple fact by repeating your gossip-magazine conspiracies.

And that shows your bias.

You're wrong, Bob. Utterly wrong. It is NOT an opinion.

I can see you're a bright guy, Bob, but arguing with you is an exercise in futility, because you are also one of the most close-minded persons I've ever encountered. I mean, seriously, you're using the same kind of arguments that global warming skeptics and creationists use!

As others pointed out, the rate of autism didn't start increasing until the definition and means of reporting autism changed.

On a different note, one preliminary study questions whether exposure to excessive amounts of television at an early age is linked with autism. The study itself (which was presented at a conference and has not yet been accpeted by a peer-reviewed journal) contains many flaws; for instance, the authors failed to control for socio-economic status. I will be interested to read whether better-designed studies can repeat the findings. If there's something there, it could explain your post above re: the low rate of autism among the Amish.

I should point out two things I learned this morning while searching the medical lit on autism and mercury:

--One meta-analysis did indeed find that there was an increase in the number of reports to the VAERs database re: autism after receipt of certain vaccines. This is a kicker that I'm sure Clocker Bob will appreciate, being that it seems (at first) to back up his claims: one of the authors worked in the pharma industry, and the study itself relied on data supplied by Lederle Laboratories!

--Another analysis of the same data noted--and this is also a kicker--that the increase in the number of reports of autism following vaccination occurred immediately after litigation was announced against the vaccine manufacturers. Furthermore, the authors noted that this pattern occurred both in the US and the UK at different times, with each increased pegged exactly the timing of the litigation. Obviously, correlation does not prove causation, but one cannot help but be suspicious of this.

fiery jack wrote:no doubt about it, mercury in its pure state is bad news but risking overstating and oversimplifying the science is argument-damaging.

I'm damaging the argument? Right.

How is that I'm overstating the toxicity and hazardous natures of Mercury?

It's obvious that there are safe levels for exposure with almost any substance. It's difficult to ascertain how much mercury may be coming from other environmental factors. Therefore, it's irrational to use mercury as a NON-ESSENTIAL preservative in vaccines or dental amalgam.

My oldest son (4) has autism. I do not think *HIS* autism has anything to do with vaccines. There are versions of virtually every vaccine made that do not contain mercury. We requested these out of concern. He never suffered a dramatic change in behavior post-vaccination. And yet, our son is autistic. On the flipside, every other parent I know has vaccinated their children and did not request special vaccines. None of their children is autistic. I realize that's anecdotal "evidence," but I remain unconvinced that mercury in vaccines is the primary reason for the recent rise in autism spectrum disorders.

I DO think that general mercury levels in the environment are likely higher today than ten years ago (our fuckhead president lowered mercury emission standards). I think other factors are contributing, as well. There are many interesting theories about the increase that are being considered by researchers... some scary, like the vaccine scare, and some just... interesting.

In the meantime, we as a family just take each day one at a time, trying to help our son through a world that doesn't quite "get" him. We don't spend a lot of time worrying what caused this. There's too much work to do now... work to help our son and to educate the world about the increasing population of autistic people in this country. Eventually, almost everyone will know someone on the spectrum if the rates continue apace.

Just speaking from my own experience.

bigc wrote:I know that my nephew is autistic. I know that my sister and brother in law have studied in great detail the varying theories behind the causes for autism, and have found that the mercury in vaccines is as likely a cause as about three or four other factors, but that none of those factors seem to be more likely than any other.

My post on etiology explains all the known and accepted etiologies.