Brian May ran 3 separate stacks of Vox's live - I want to say say about a dozen of them - apparently so he could run delayed sounds to various groups of amps and get the guitar harmonies like they had on the records.

But he was Brian May.

I play with a 1x12 combo myself, but I find it annoying when I cant get the speaker closer to my head-level, forcing me to put it on a stand or a chair. Sometimes I pine for a tall cab so I can get the sound at ear level, which would allow me to play at a lower volume on stage.

Hey TDFly!

The stuff you are saying on this thread makes it seem like you haven't really been around amps or drums very much. Either that or you've got yourself a town full of drummers with 5,000W feet. Do they break the batter head every few minutes, normally? Are they using special drum heads made out of steel reinforced lexan polymers or something?


If you really think a drummer playing a kick drum with no sound reinforcement system is gonna produce any appreciable level of actual low bass, like from 20 to 80HZ, like enough to compete with any ballsy bass amp, like enough to actually feel it in your chest even a little, man, you are blowing my mind here. Not really, cause I've come to expect this kinda stuff from you.

Put up a nice, flat microphone in the audience area of any normal club, and have your awesome drummers play on the stage, with no amplification, and send me a wav file of what you record. I'm not kidding. I'd *LOVE* to hear it.

"Maybe most kick drums are broken?" Hey, maybe your ears are broken, or your brain or something?

But please do keep talking about this though. It's a pretty fun read.

scott wrote:Hey TDFly!

The stuff you are saying on this thread makes it seem like you haven't really been around amps or drums very much. Either that or you've got yourself a town full of drummers with 5,000W feet. Do they break the batter head every few minutes, normally? Are they using special drum heads made out of steel reinforced lexan polymers or something?


If you really think a drummer playing a kick drum with no sound reinforcement system is gonna produce any appreciable level of actual low bass, like from 20 to 80HZ, like enough to compete with any ballsy bass amp, like enough to actually feel it in your chest even a little, man, you are blowing my mind here. Not really, cause I've come to expect this kinda stuff from you.

Put up a nice, flat microphone in the audience area of any normal club, and have your awesome drummers play on the stage, with no amplification, and send me a wav file of what you record. I'm not kidding. I'd *LOVE* to hear it.

"Maybe most kick drums are broken?" Hey, maybe your ears are broken, or your brain or something?

But please do keep talking about this though. It's a pretty fun read.

i don't mind being wrong as long as i'm amusing.

i think my drummer is just loud as hell. i can hear him (and the kick) from blocks away.

it raises a question though, why have drums stayed acoustic?

i know electronic drums are around, by why has no decent rig for drums been engineered?

"they did, and it's called a p.a."

very funny, smart-ass.

seriously.

m.koren wrote:

endofanera wrote:

that damned fly wrote:i disagree completely about the kick drum thing.

tell your drummer...

I dont have a drummer.

I agree that drums with full front heads sound better for just about anything but metal...

...


Anyway, I dont know what your problem is with mics on more than vocals, but if you showed up at a club where I was doing sound, you should feel free (as should any band) to come right up, shake my hand, and say, "How are you doing tonight, sound guy? My names that damned fly. No mics on anything but the vocals for us. You take it easy tonight."

After I replied, "Are you sure?" that would be it. It is not my place to argue with your intent; I would be glad to oblige. I always expect that bands with specific sound requests know what they want and why they want it, reason or my idea of "good sound" be damned.

Based on what you wrote above , you don't come across like any other soundman I've encountered.

Yeah, what the hell?!?

If I found a genie in a bottle, and I had three wishes, I would use one of those to make every sound guy exactly like you. Seriously. Amazing.

scott wrote:Hey TDFly!

The stuff you are saying on this thread makes it seem like you haven't really been around amps or drums very much. Either that or you've got yourself a town full of drummers with 5,000W feet. Do they break the batter head every few minutes, normally? Are they using special drum heads made out of steel reinforced lexan polymers or something?


If you really think a drummer playing a kick drum with no sound reinforcement system is gonna produce any appreciable level of actual low bass, like from 20 to 80HZ, like enough to compete with any ballsy bass amp, like enough to actually feel it in your chest even a little, man, you are blowing my mind here. Not really, cause I've come to expect this kinda stuff from you.

Put up a nice, flat microphone in the audience area of any normal club, and have your awesome drummers play on the stage, with no amplification, and send me a wav file of what you record. I'm not kidding. I'd *LOVE* to hear it.

"Maybe most kick drums are broken?" Hey, maybe your ears are broken, or your brain or something?

But please do keep talking about this though. It's a pretty fun read.

Actually, a kick drum SHOULD be able to penetrate a small-ish club space without amplification. In fact, the whole drum kit should.

If you're talking about tweaked sub-bass, that's different. No kit will naturally produce that. Not sure why you (or anyone) really would want that though.

stephensolo wrote:Actually, a kick drum SHOULD be able to penetrate a small-ish club space without amplification. In fact, the whole drum kit should.

That's a great theory. Both of the drummers I've played with in the past few years hit nice and hard (i.e. 6'+ guys with no shortage of strength, and good technique) and I don't see your theory working out so good. Even during practice, in our space which is the size of a smallish club, I can *hear* the kick drum, but it certainly doesn't have a low end presence that I can *feel* at all.

stephensolo wrote:If you're talking about tweaked sub-bass, that's different. No kit will naturally produce that. Not sure why you (or anyone) really would want that though.

I wouldn't call it tweaked sub-bass. It's bass. And drums like kick drums and floor toms do indeed create such low-frequency energy. It's just that it doesn't come close to the dB SPL needed to be a big presence. That's why we put microphones up and run drums through sound systems. That's why folks close-mic the kick drum, too, to take advantage of the proximity effect. The bass is there, it's just at a lower energy than it needs to be for you to feel it. If you're not sure why people like to have a big-sounding (and big-feeling) kick drum, there's probably not much anybody can say to that.

scott wrote:If you're not sure why people like to have a big-sounding (and big-feeling) kick drum, there's probably not much anybody can say to that.

that's true.

why for no kick drum big enough and loud enough to do that.

seem like problem be solved by now.

Hey, does the Sunn T50C sound as good as I think it might? I'll probably never be able to find one...or afford one. Couldn't find anything in the search.

Adam CR wrote:

llllllllllllllllllllllll wrote:

Adam CR wrote:

m.koren wrote:High volume encourages the onset of hypnosis. This is a good thing.

The pleasurable/exciting physical reaction to volume is short-lived though. It ceases to be exhilarating quickly and becomes oppressive and fatiguing.

I don't think so. Black Dice were *just* loud enough to illicit a physical response, and was one of the best shows of my life.

I dunno, this is based on half-remembered lectures at Uni, but I'm pretty sure that the pleasurable physical/chemical reactions to high SPLs are all provably short-lived.

Also, there must presumably be a relation twixt high SPL enjoyment and prediction of the noise; knowing what's coming. Hence being able to tolerate one's own guitar playing or a band one knows...

Probably some reading is in order!

And anyway, it's a digression.

Doesn't listening fatigue come for an abundance of treble frequencies?

Nevertheless, I don't see the point of being super loud if you're not going to have reasonable control over your dynamics.

I think what I have learned in playing in bands is it's not how loud everyone is playing, it is balance.

If 600w bass player is drowning out everybody, he/she needs to get an amp with less wattage. Or a powerbrake. Or leave the band and take the ego with him/her.

It's a band, not three people struggling to sound good while loud dude earfucks everyone.

A good band gets a good balance. Things need to be heard, not drowned out. Every instrument has a fiefdom in a band. I think there should be relative equality. If all members in the band are always full on with cocks out, it usually sucks.

If the drums aren't miked through the PA, turning the amps up to ten is going to make any band sound like shit, even one with Crover/Trainer/McNeilly or Bonham on the traps.

Do you think Duane Denison played with his Hiwatt all the way up to ten in TJL? No way, listen to how there's overdrive, not muddy saturated distortion.

Clarity.

Balance.