Claytron wrote:But to say that something can't possibly sound good because it's kitschy, well... that's just plain stupid.

I would expect that kind of idiocy from a developmentally disabled mollusk, but to see the one and only Steve Albini make this kind of sweeping assertion is a tad unnerving. I mean: aren't you supposed to be a genius or something, Steve?

Please enlighten me. Where in this conversation did I say anything like this? I have no doubt that given a reasonable latitude to define the term "good," one could make a guitar that sounded "good" out of almost anything.

Choosing to do that with castoff scraps and junkyard stuff rather than making one out of regular guitar stuff is a novelty. Getting pissy when somebody notices that it is a novelty is acting like a prick.

And also I guess a lot of people hate me. Waa.

Claytron wrote:

Boombats wrote:I have to argue: Fred's overreaction at Schmutz's allegation of being high is ludicrous. Not even the most die-hard AA / NA members would get that pissed unless they had something to hide.

I never said that Fred didn't overreact, but I do believe that calling someone a "prick" based entirely on what he says in a forum is kind of a prick move. Us against them, hive-mind bullshit.

"Fred"s response can certainly be classified as "prickish." Here Schmutz is essentially promoting your pal's store and up springs Mangan with an indignant bone to pick. Then his "friends" such as you jump in the boat, and permanently cockblock his store from getting any business from anyone who posts here.

If you spent any time here besides trolling, you would learn there's no hive mentality, not much. There are a lot of dissenting views at EA, a fucking lot. There are plenty here who would have found Fred's contraptions quite fascinating if a bit expensive. Too bad this crap behavior is alienating your entire motherfucking city.

I still wonder whether you and "fred" etc. are actually enemies of the real Fred Mangan. You're certainly doing his business some real harm.

Who knew the novelty guitar community could be such a hornet's nest.

steve wrote:Where in this conversation did I say anything like this?

Oh noes! I've misrepresented you. You did, however, say, "your novelty guitars aren't even as funny as those made by the Heavils," which assumes that (i) you believe that Fred was shooting for humor over other, more substantive considerations, and (ii) that you are no stranger to references far more obscure than "Moe Howard." While that wasn't your complaint, it does merit discussion.

steve wrote:I have no doubt that given a reasonable latitude to define the term "good," one could make a guitar that sounded "good" out of almost anything.

No argument here... what's your point, genius?

steve wrote:Choosing to do that with castoff scraps and junkyard stuff rather than making one out of regular guitar stuff is a novelty.

Ah, the World According to Steve Albini. Even if it *is* a novelty, it doesn't diminish its value as an instrument. But by calling it a novelty, that is precisely what you are attempting to do. Of course, not everyone will see it as novelty. I don't. I think of them as works of art, with a bit of novelty thrown in for good measure. But think whatever you like, Jerry Lewis. No one's losing any sleep, and the guitars still play like a dream.

steve wrote:Getting pissy when somebody notices that it is a novelty is acting like a prick.

And getting pissy over someone getting pissy is acting like a cunting pig dick. Or a prick. Whichever you prefer, Sunshine.

steve wrote:And also I guess a lot of people hate me. Waa.

I would expect no less from you. Unflinching to the end. But hey, you don't have to guess, Punchy. I tell it like it is. And sure, Fred can be a prick from time to time, just like you and possibly all of us. The only difference is: he would be doing so intentionally, whereas you cannot help yourself. If people stopped giving people business because they were pricks, you'd be kicked to the curb like yesterday's transvestite hooker. Fucking bitch-ass Butch Vig wannabe.

Boombats wrote:"Fred"s response can certainly be classified as "prickish." Here Schmutz is essentially promoting your pal's store and up springs Mangan with an indignant bone to pick. Then his "friends" such as you jump in the boat, and permanently cockblock his store from getting any business from anyone who posts here.

Oh, I'm sure a couple of you will swing by to test out the guitars. After all, his friends' words should never count as a strike against him. He just showed me the thread because he thought it was funny, and I decided to join in for chuckles. Frankly, I'm surprised that you, a paragon of fairness would even bring this up. It seems like you have a grudge to bear, and that you're taking this opportunity to suggest that Fred should be held accountable for words he didn't write, in addition to the ones he did.

Boombats wrote:If you spent any time here besides trolling, you would learn there's no hive mentality, not much.

"Trolling," eh? That seems to be a popular term bandied about by the pseudo-Intelligentsia these days. Trolls are individuals who routinely visit web forums to start fights. I merely visited this forum to speak my mind, and so I have. But in characterizing me as a "troll," you seek to bring validity to your argument by method of invalidating mine. Really, who cares? As far as I'm concerned, you're the troll. Lusus naturae. I barely spend any time online.

Boombats wrote:There are plenty here who would have found Fred's contraptions quite fascinating if a bit expensive. Too bad this crap behavior is alienating your entire motherfucking city.

And too bad you're either too delusional or too undiscerning to notice that plenty of pricks succeed. John Lennon was a prick. He even beat up on ladies. Did it stop anyone from buying Beatles records? Phil Spector is a prick. Hung jury. And hey, as previously mentioned here, plenty of people think that Albini's a prick. Not to mention a hack. When has that ever mattered? Rimbaud, Celine, Bukowski... all pricks. Schillinger, Dillinger, and that guy at Bacci's. Everybody's a prick. Whee!

Boombats wrote:I still wonder whether you and "fred" etc. are actually enemies of the real Fred Mangan. You're certainly doing his business some real harm.

Yes, I'm sure he's ever-so-concerned about it. If I were Fred, I'd be thanking my lucky stars that I didn't have to put up with someone as self-assured and blissfully ignorant as you. I mean: who are you kidding? This is the Electrical forums we're talking about. Pull your head out of the clouds already. Whatever "harm" I've inflicted here is offset by the general curiosity of people who are only interested in seeing and playing unique musical instruments. Sorry, but that's the way it goes.

Claytron wrote:As perhaps I alone see it, he was responding to the guy saying that he was wasted.

Is that what all this ruckus is about? I never said Fred was wasted. I said he was toasted. And as Fred clearly stated, he has been sober for 15 years. Nobody mentions that they have been sober for 15 years if they didn't have sobriety issues 15+ years ago. Being sober in that context is something to proud of.
So why the fuck were you so defensive about it, Fred Mangan?
I don't know if what you did all those years ago left you permanently toasted, but I do know that the day I went in there, that is the impression I got. And, I am not sorry for having that opinion.
When I initially left your shop I had a favorable opinion about the place. Then I told a bunch of people to check out your spot, and I posted here asking if anyone had any experience with you. After reading your pitiful rant I and many others lost all respect for you. If that post is really the way you feel, then you are completely disingenuous. That is why I will never do any business with you.
And on one hand, the people going to bat for you, Fred Mangan, are saying that you do great work. The people attacking you are saying that you're a regular fucking prick. Your raw talent for turning satellite dishes into lemonade does not impress me. Shit, Phil Spector can record an immaculate record, but nobody wants to do business with a gun-wielding psychopath. And nobody wants to do business with a regular prick. Unless its Steve.

Claytron wrote:Fucking bitch-ass Butch Vig wannabe.

Who would wanna be Vig?

Next you're going to bring up Spot.

this city ain't big enough for the both of you's.... i propose pistols, at dawn

he said, she said, blah blah blah..... my gut reaction would be to join in and bitch about those being bitches and bitching about how pointless internet sniping is (between those who will never meet in real life), the wasted bandwidth and pure exhausted human energy. then I remember how much entertainment it's providing me!

there should be a rule that you have to meet in real life before you can talk to someone on a message board. this shit's fucked up. whether on this thread or any other on this here internet, pretty everyone has been called a prick. certainly, everyone has that ability, but it's when they chose to display it. fred, bad timing, sir. this guy was trying to promote your shop(pe). i choose to judge people on meeting them in person, despite anything i've heard. people famously hate steve, yet when i've bumped into him at shows there's been no dust up, nor do i have any friends with such experiences. believe me, i know some real assholes who you would think would have some stories. same with fred, this is the only occasion where i've ever known anyone with shit to say.

god i hate being the hippy here. some one else back me up with some 'flowers and love' bullshit.

Claytron,

You're going on as if Steve fucked your mom. If he did, that's cool. If he didn't, then fuck off and call it a day.

SchmutZ wrote:If that post is really the way you feel, then you are completely disingenuous.

Again with the sweeping generalizations. I shouldn't have to explain this to you, but here goes. It is my belief that Fred overreacted, but even if he really feels that way, it doesn't make him "completely disingenuous." For all you know, he's the most honest guy alive, and, in fact, if he was being honest when he wrote that to you, it only bolsters my point. The fact is: he's not a prick, and he's a straight shooter. Except when he's drunk.

SchmutZ wrote:And on one hand, the people going to bat for you, Fred Mangan, are saying that you do great work. The people attacking you are saying that you're a regular fucking prick.

One major fucking difference being: the people attacking him don't know him. I don't have any beef with you personally, of course. If Fred was acting like a space case, so be it. You have a right to your opinion, but when you start calling people "disingenuous," their friends have a right to defend them. And to judge a person based on what they write in a forum is just preposterous.

SchmutZ wrote:Your raw talent for turning satellite dishes into lemonade does not impress me.

Then why should he care whether he's lost your business?

SchmutZ wrote:And nobody wants to do business with a regular prick. Unless its Steve.

Trust me, Steve Albini's prickishness reaches new levels of irregularity.