Vibracobra wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:13 am One of my best friends totally changed as a person when he decide to quit. I mean, his ways and behavior towards the rest. Almost became autistic (!?).

ADHD treatment often involves some kind of stimulant, so I wonder whether nicotine was performing that function for your friend?

Wood Goblin wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:31 pm

Vibracobra wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:13 am One of my best friends totally changed as a person when he decide to quit. I mean, his ways and behavior towards the rest. Almost became autistic (!?).

ADHD treatment often involves some kind of stimulant, so I wonder whether nicotine was performing that function for your friend?

This was like 20 years ago or so... as far as I know he just decided to do it by himself; Not doctor counselling nor treatment, he just stopped smoking. Maybe it was too radical of a change.

He looked kinda uneasy all the time, barely talked to anyone. Thing improved a bit with time though. But still...

There is no love greater than the self-righteous pitying love the non-addict and/or recovery-bro has for those in the trenches.

rsmurphy wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:42 pm There is no love greater than the self-righteous pitying love the non-addict and/or recovery-bro has for those in the trenches.

THIS

rsmurphy wrote: There is no love greater than the self-righteous pitying love the non-addict and/or recovery-bro has for those in the trenches.

I've worked most of my adult life in substance-abuse related fields. This attitude is the most off-putting part of the work- both from 'recovering' folks who come into the field and from 'do-gooding' newcomers, religious types, etc.

Some people are secretly jealous of others who are still using. Or they want to be able to say they’re clean but still be close to their drug scene of choice. I have met so many people with like 90 days sober who suddenly want to become recovery coaches or peer advocates. Those people are the last motherfuckers that anyone trying to stay sober needs to be around, because they’re just waiting for you to relapse so they can join you.

it's a rough one seeing others who are still drowning sometimes. I have always felt "drowning" was the right word to use here as growing up around the great lakes, one always hears stories about someone struggling and drowning...and taking their would-be rescuers down with them.

On one hand, there's a strong "there but the grace of god go i" component. "Woof. I've been there, I've been that bad, was I that bad? God maybe i was worse, oh wait no I'm not supposed to compare. Still..." It's sometimes difficult seeing folks doing the thing you were doing and wanting to just shake them and say "YOU ARE GOING TO FUCKING DIE FROM THIS OR WORSE."

And then you get a friend who looks to you for help and maybe the first one or two times you get way over-involved and micromanaging their recovery only to have your heart broken when they go out again...and you see people over and over that you're not friends with but have maybe gotten to know a little bit, show up, vanish, repeat. It can take a toll.

Sometimes aloof distance is the best I can muster being around people still partying. I'd be lying if I didn't say there's a jealousy component in some ways because it wasn't always being too afraid to check my bank account or wonder how my cop landlord was going to get his rent. Sometimes it was fun (or maybe "fun" is more accurate) at least well before I got sick of it enough to stop.

People at that 60-90 days mark are frequently referred to as being on "the pink cloud" and it's a lovely helluva ride while you are on it, in some ways as good as being high. I don't have any science to back this up but it's so potent that I have to suspect something's going on with their brain chemistry where they are starting to get a flood of brain chemicals I think that maybe the body stopped producing and now is going full force again. Unfortunately it doesn't last, people crash&burn and many relapse...but on that pink cloud they really latch on to folks tight and want the whole world to join them.

I passed a milestone in that I haven't had a drink or used drugs in 20 years this year which is insane to think about. Last ten or so though I have been borderline dry-drunk in the head-space and that's been my big challenge. I'm still way, way better than where I was at, what I was doing, the hole I dug myself into. Nothing that's happened to me since then would have been made better by getting fucked up over it. I'm exceedingly lucky, and yes: grateful.

Embarrassed myself pretty bad this weekend relating to my alcohol consumption (nothing serious, thankfully). But going on the wagon... again... starting today.

For those of you who have successfully quit drinking alcohol for a significant period of time, temporarily or permanently, how in the fuck did you do it??

For me, the desire to drink just started to taper off. I was lucky in that because wasn't the case in my family. Not having alcohol in the house also helped.

Alcohol is such a weird drug because it's everywhere, totally accepted in mainstream culture, and many, many people can use it without issue. I am not one of those people, and I pretended I was for like.....probably a couple of decades. It's a very destructive drug, but usually it is problematic for only a subset of humans.

I quit because I didn't really have a choice, I couldn't just scale back. I was either going to be drinking or I wasn't going to be, one way or another. Took my wife and mom a couple of conversations with to get me to quit, but the conversations took hold, I admitted what I'd known for years - I had to quit, it would never "get better" and life would never just hand me a nice good easy path to sobriety, which in my head I guess I was waiting for. A drunks logic is never solid lol.

I rode out the withdrawals like a fool. Wife and mom wanted me to go inpatient somewhere, but I wouldn't do it. Had my last drink on 05/31/20 after one of the conversations described above. Hung out with my kids, watched the simpsons and downed my final bourbons in bed. When I woke up in the middle of the night, the booze was gone at my request, and I moved to the couch, which I basically lived on for the next 5-7 days.

I made it through the next week, but I shoulda gone and detoxed properly. It was not easy. Bad sleep, the shakes, muscles didn't wanna work. Barely left the couch for about 5 days. Drank a metric fuckton of water and topo chico. It got better, but it probably took about a week before I could get off the couch under my own power. Was brutal.

I didn't want to ever have to admit that I needed help to get sober I suppose. To this day, I mostly tell people "I quit drinking" more than I say anything else. But I made it, and I've been sober since.

At any rate, there are all kinds of different drunks. Binge, functional, embarrassing, etc. The question for me was whether I could control it, and I never could. Once I had a drink in me, I wasn't gonna stop until I was asleep or the bottle ran dry.

As far as how to quit, man, this sounds corny, but that's just a decision you have to decide to make. I attended a couple AA meetings, it didn't really take. It was the height of covid, so that was a big factor, zoom meetings were a fucking mess. So I just kinda got and stayed sober on my own. I talked about it with my wife and therapist, and here at the old place, but I never followed a program.

For me, I won't ever drink again and I know it. I go to bars, parties, my wife still keeps booze around the house because she can just have a drink every now and again like a normal person, and I just don't touch it. I don't hide from anyone that I do not drink anymore, and I'll talk about it if people are interested, but usually it just takes me saying "Oh, I don't drink booze." and that's that. People are respectful.

Anyway, dunno if that helps, but I can tell you I waffled for many years between "this needs to be your last drink forever" and "you'll never be able to give this up" multiple times a day lol. I think anyone that has a similar internal dialogue needs to be honest with themselves about what they can and can't control. Sobriety is a very individual thing IMO.