gio wrote:Just look how the general attitude and condition of the nation has gone to shit over the last 8 years... and then tell me the president doesn't have the power to affect things.

Gio, if I didn't have hope that words and thoughts mean things and change things, I wouldn't be on this forum and others seven days a week. My hope can coexist with my opinion that America will eventually be destroyed, from within and from without, but when that will happen is yet to be determined, and how ugly it gets is yet to be determined. There is value in time. I'm fighting for time. Empires don't turn as rancid and as hypocritical as ours has and then rejuvenate themselves. The rats will sink the ship and then leave it. I'm not going to fake optimism, but I'm going to try to tell people that we can still step on the brakes a little.

If someone wants to tell me that we will ever live in a country again that will sacrifice miltary budgets to promote peace, I will argue with them. If someone wants to tell me that we will ever again have an economy that favors the middle class over the parasitic wealthy, I will argue with them.

Barack Obama cannot stop these trends. America has decided that what it wants to be is the most feared and militarized nation on Earth. This is a make or break proposition for a country. You either become that, or you perish. The Romans thought they could do it, the Nazis thought they could do it. We have had our country hijacked by megalomaniacs who are operating on a plan that is outlined for the next 100 years; they do not stop this plan because people vote in a decent man from Chicago.

gio wrote:Also, you didn't answer the question. You changed the subject.

I'm voting for whoever is the closest to me in ideology. I'm not picking from the cast of characters with 'Approved by the NWO' or 'Approved by AIPAC' stamped on their foreheads. I need to maintain some dignity.

Minotaur029 wrote: So this time, tell me who you think is going to win and tell me the lesser of the "six evils."

Obama is the lesser of the six evils. Right now, I'm betting on McCain to win, because of this country's long proven affection for old white men. Obama's the smartest and the least corrupt of the six you named, by a landslide. Actually, Romney is not corrupt by politician standards, but that's because Governors usually aren't, unless they're George Bush or Rod Blagojevich. There is a chance that Obama is running a game to get money and will try to become a real progressive if elected, but if he tries to change the rules ( that are kept in a book that we don't get to see ), find a good florist, because you'll be needing to send flowers.

But do you still consider Obama to be corrupt and "evil" or is he one of the good guys? Explain your answer.

Minotaur029 wrote:But do you still consider Obama to be corrupt...

...is he a career politician? Does he have a chance to actually win an election by any means other than popular grassroots voter support? If the answer to either of these questions is yes, then I would have to say...yes.

Minotaur029 wrote:But do you still consider Obama to be corrupt and "evil"?

Not necessarily. That's why I say he has a straitjacket waiting for him. Obama could be good or bad- it doesn't mean that much in the big picture. The system is corrupt and evil, and it is impervious to real change by our elected officials. If we could change the direction of our government with our votes, we wouldn't have them. Obama or any President will be confined to the policies permitted by the central bankers and the military-industrial complex.

I've said this a billion times: the cabal of international bankers captured our banking and monetary systems in 1913. The introduction of the Federal Reserve was the end of constitutional law in America. The country's internal wealth was first cannibalized during the years 1929 through 1933, when the United States went bankrupt, and was reconstituted as a corporation and sold in receivership to the ruling committee that controls the network of central banks that control all commerce for 99% of the industrialized world. The wealth is then resold to us by making us assume more debt to buy it back. This continues until demand is saturated, then the bust is triggered, and the cycle begins anew.

The country has been in a technical state of emergency since 1933, which has been affirmed by a series of Presidential Executive Orders. After the bankruptcy, the uniform criminal code became the supreme law of the land, and all US citizens became servants of the system of perpetual debt, and we pay our tributes to the central bank by using debt-based fiat currency, which acts as a flat tax against all Americans, and by the illegal apportioned tax on personal income, which is paid to another private corporation, the Internal Revenue Service, a subsidiary of the privately-held Federal Reserve.

Look, I know this sounds unbelievable, but you, me and all our fellow Americans have been purchased by the owners of the global plantation. It's no different that if you are a bookie in a city- you pay your cut to the mafia every week if you want to stay in business. In America, for the right to live under the illusion of a free country, you pay off the bankers and the IRS. They own you through the money that you use, simple as that. They dictate what is the legal tender of the nation, and every time it changes hands, they get their cut, every loan, every hour of work, everything that you buy, cradle to grave.

The power to control the money policy is the ultimate power over a population, and enforced legal tender is the ultimate product. To make what you sell, all you need is paper, ink, and to make everybody use it, all you need is a police state.

clocker bob wrote:

Minotaur029 wrote:But do you still consider Obama to be corrupt and "evil"?

Not necessarily. That's why I say he has a straitjacket waiting for him. Obama could be good or bad- it doesn't mean that much in the big picture. The system is corrupt and evil, and it is impervious to real change by our elected officials. If we could change the direction of our government with our votes, we wouldn't have them. Obama or any President will be confined to the policies permitted by the central bankers and the military-industrial complex.

So then what is the point of voting at all? Fuck it!

kenoki wrote:So then what is the point of voting at all? Fuck it!

NO! You take what the system gives you. You'll never get anything more ( you'll almost certainly get less ) if you don't participate. If we vote in one progressive president, followed by another, followed by another, we build political capital. I make these dire warnings about what will happen to America if people do tune out and stop voting- then it's guaranteed. What has been taken from us can be taken back. Rome fell. Nobody thought it would in Claudius' time, either.

well, maybe obama's plan is to get progressive once he's in office, cause lord knows if he tries to act progressive now, not only is he not going to get in but, his black ass is probably going to be shot. i think the guy is brave. wait....... okay, i went back. you basically said the same thing.

i think guiliani is a bigger threat than mccain, tho. sure, old white guy... but he won't get the kind of cross-over support as guiliani. i mean, shit, even i would consider voting for the dude. mccain is like a small stay puft marshmellow man--and, maybe it's just me, but i think people are going to be looking for a more serious face... friendly, maybe, but more serious.

fuck hillary tho. if she makes it through the primaries, we won't have a democrat in office. obama... there's a better chance and i find him to be a guy i can trust... even rush l. seems to have a hard time saying anything substantially negative about the guy--i think he almost likes him since he is a threat to hillary (we think?).

love kucinich (of course!) but i agree with the guy here who says he wouldn't be much of a leader. stick him in a cabinet and watch him grow, we'll check back in 10 years.

kenoki wrote:love kucinich (of course!) but i agree with the guy here who says he wouldn't be much of a leader. stick him in a cabinet and watch him grow, we'll check back in 10 years.

Kucinich (sp?) is the only candidate I would seriously consider voting for in the upcoming elections to date. Period.