Welp, I tried being genuine and curious, despite my worldview telling me otherwise.

This is no longer a real conversation. Just some super JV trolling. "I'm not the boss of you" lol.

rsmurphy wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:55 pm

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 2:45 pm i'm not your boss. do whatever you want. i'm just telling you how i treat these situations.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 9:14 pm Why would I give up a single friend or family member because of politics? I'm a believer in the Twain/Carlin/MacDonald model. We can help each other more than any politician can. If you want to talk, we can talk. If you want to argue, you have to have thick skin. And even then, I'll try to be nice. Because love is more important than politics.

You then went on to argue that I (we) should be helping these people who have gone off "the deep end."

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote:the bottom line is they need your help if they have truly gone off the deep end.

Honestly I don't give a fuck what you do as you are just one in a long line of online strangers kicking-up dust then backpedalling when challenged.

you know what you are capable of far better than me. if you can help a close relation and you choose not to, yes, that is wrong.
but again, we are only here because we care. the tech room is full of people who agree with me. that's why they're not here.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote:if you can help a close relation and you choose not to, yes, that is wrong.

You mean help "a single friend or family member because of politics," and to be clear we are not talking about the politics of something benign like state park funding. I just don't have the energy or time to convert Christian Nationalists, bigots, racists, and people looking to erase and/or severely immobilize the LGBTQ+ community. Frankly, I don't understand why you think I or anyone personally affected by their attacks should reach out to help.

No idea why you think the tech room should be a concern of mine.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote: Sat Jan 20, 2024 9:14 pmthe tech room is full of people who agree with me. that's why they're not here.

https://x.com/nathanfielder/status/6200 ... 3vjk5po18w

rsmurphy wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:31 pm

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote:if you can help a close relation and you choose not to, yes, that is wrong.

You mean help "a single friend or family member because of politics," and to be clear we are not talking about the politics of something benign like state park funding. I just don't have the energy or time to convert Christian Nationalists, bigots, racists, and people looking to erase and/or severely immobilize the LGBTQ+ community. Frankly, I don't understand why you think I or anyone personally affected by their attacks should reach out to help.

because (presumably) you are smarter than them, you understand where they're coming from, you love each other, and they aren't attacking you personally.
i admit i'm making a lot of assumptions there. (ringo would call me ableist. maybe i'm just old.) but that's where i'm coming from!

No idea why you think the tech room should be a concern of mine.

i don't.
that's just my way of saying i should expect this for bringing an anti-political argument to a political thread.

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote:they aren't attacking you personally

A vote for Trump is a personal attack, as is street-teaming for MAGA and shilling for Christian Nationalism. It's an attack on autonomy for women and civil rights for the LGBTQ+ community.

that's just my way of saying i should expect this for bringing an anti-political argument to a political thread.

For myself and countless others it's all political.

There is an important problem here getting obscured by some unavoidable internet debate fire. What can a fellow traveler offer a family member or old friend that might help them see things a little differently? Don't get me wrong, if someone is comfortable erasing the existence or identity of their lgbtq family member only therapy can save them. But like, who knows someone who shifted their hard right views into something a little more tolerant?

My father in law is a Trump supporter. He's generally socially aware enough not to say some bullshit around my wife and me. He has made some horrendously stupid racist jokes against Asians (he's a Vietnam vet) which I've stared down and he's rolled off as "Ha, that's terrible".

Obviously I'm not pretending I'm going to turn racist old men into socialist activists, but the needle must move a little with some people, right?

losthighway wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:10 pm But like, who knows someone who shifted their hard right views into something a little more tolerant?

Not sure if this is what you mean, but at 18, right before going off to college, I identified as a catholic and a republican due to my upbringing. I am no longer either of those things. That shift happened fairly quickly, over the course of a couple of years. That being said, it's not easy to completely shake off 18 years of that brainwashing. Every now and then, even today, my immediate reaction to something will root back from that time, someone will call me out on it, and I'll listen.

That last skill is unfortunately something that too many people don't have or don't use, and therein lies much of the problem.

rsmurphy wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 4:47 pm

that's just my way of saying i should expect this for bringing an anti-political argument to a political thread.

For myself and countless others it's all political.

well i know it's not all personal....

hbiden@onlyfans.com wrote:they aren't attacking you personally

A vote for Trump is a personal attack, as is street-teaming for MAGA and shilling for Christian Nationalism. It's an attack on autonomy for women and civil rights for the LGBTQ+ community.

that would force me to ask how everyone in my life votes. that's probably the least interesting thing about my friends.

jfv wrote: Mon Jan 22, 2024 6:24 pm That shift happened fairly quickly, over the course of a couple of years.

Can you remember what appealed to you in a way to open you up? Was it a particular person, but of education or series of conversations?

I know for me, I was raised 80's/90's white middle class and taught that racism was bad. I'd concluded that its evils had obviously been defeated in all but the most heinous rural backwaters and I was moved to comment as much in a multicultural lit class freshman year of college. Luckily the Latino, Muslim, and black students were fairly gentle in laughing down my privileged bullshit and the Indian professor was also kind in handing my ass to me. Luckily I already had plenty of evidence that all of these people were cool and smart. Is there no one with more unearned confidence than a middle class white male with 18 years of life experience?