A while back people were discussing meditation, I think it was buried in another thread somewhere...

Anyhoo, I'm very interested in learning how to meditate. However, as some of you may have noticed I'm not giggy wid super-natural crap, although I can suspend a little disbelief if it can be seen as a method to an end.

I'm interested in meditation not only as a relaxation method but as a way of exploring consciousness.

I've looked into TM, as people I have a lot of respect for -David Lynch for one, and a number of prominent scientists- are practitioners, however... at $2500 I'm sure there is a cheaper way.

Can anyone recommend an easily accessible -i.e. likely to be at the local YMCA/Health club- that keeps the nonsense to a minimal and focuses on consciousness exploration and relaxation techniques?

Go on Gramsci, do it...
http://www.electrical.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12475

I was asking a friend at work about this the other day, funnily enough, and she recommended Morley College near Waterloo. However, looking at it, it is more the relaxation kind than the transcendental kind.

Hi Gramsci,

I would recommend perhaps taking a course given by Robert Fripp's Guitar Craft school. Meditation/morning sittings are one of the pillars of the teachings. It may be perhaps a bit more involved than what you are looking for, but the profound effect it had on my life prompted me to put it out there.

http://www.guitarcraft.com/?np=5&&id=2

Best,

Shawn

I think you're making this far too complicated that it should be. People get caught up in very utilitarian attitudes about something that is essentially spiritual and subjective. They think they need to learn this or that method and should achieve such and such results. Very mechanical. That's not what meditation is about.

Meditation is simply the skill of spiritual abandonment and exploration. What you abandon is the self. What you explore is the other, the transcendent, the cosmos, God, whatever you what to call it. There's no rule book to this, and there's no one right way to do it (even though there are many foolish ways). You learn what you need to learn as you go, and you start from wherever you are. I'm not being cryptic - I stress this is very spiritual and very subjective. In other words, there's nothing material that can teach you how to truly meditate, including another person. Furthermore, no one else can tell you what you need to learn or where your starting point is.

Only you can discern these things for yourself, and the only things obstructing you from doing so is looking too someone or something else to show you what you must find on your own. Genuine meditation does take faith, because you are heading on a path that cannot be logically deduced or empirically examined. If you have that faith, then you need nothing more to guide you. If you lack that faith, chances are you will allow yourself to be mislead.

second to last wrote:I think you're making this far too complicated that it should be. People get caught up in very utilitarian attitudes about something that is essentially spiritual and subjective. They think they need to learn this or that method and should achieve such and such results. Very mechanical. That's not what meditation is about.

Meditation is simply the skill of spiritual abandonment and exploration. What you abandon is the self. What you explore is the other, the transcendent, the cosmos, God, whatever you what to call it. There's no rule book to this, and there's no one right way to do it (even though there are many foolish ways). You learn what you need to learn as you go, and you start from wherever you are. I'm not being cryptic - I stress this is very spiritual and very subjective. In other words, there's nothing material that can teach you how to truly meditate, including another person. Furthermore, no one else can tell you what you need to learn or where your starting point is.

Only you can discern these things for yourself, and the only things obstructing you from doing so is looking too someone or something else to show you what you must find on your own. Genuine meditation does take faith, because you are heading on a path that cannot be logically deduced or empirically examined. If you have that faith, then you need nothing more to guide you. If you lack that faith, chances are you will allow yourself to be mislead.

This is a classically Western interpretation of meditation, right down to the arrogant certainty regarding what meditation is and isn't about.

I acknowledge that Buddhists aren't the only people who meditate, but in most strains of Buddhism there is in fact a "right" way to meditate, and the importance of having a teacher is stressed; you are not expected to just figure it out for yourself.

Gramsci,

I found this book to be very helpful, warm, funny, etc.


Carry On,

Mr. King

i've tried meditating several times but i always end up getting somewhat giddy before too long (i think it's all the oxygen going to my head) which inevitably pulls me out of the experience. has anyone familiar with meditation experienced this?

i've tried meditating several times but i always end up getting somewhat giddy before too long (i think it's all the oxygen going to my head) which inevitably pulls me out of the experience. has anyone familiar with meditation experienced this?

Yes. Yes. It is the chattering of the monkey mind. Getting the monkey mind to shut the fuck up for a few moments is the whole thing. And very, very hard.

Say, any of you fine people ever give the old Sensory Deprivation Tanks a go? I like to go for a couple of hours a few times a year -- sort of like a forced meditation. In Chicago, we have the very nice Space-Time Tanks on Lincoln Avenue. Highly recommended.

If I ever own a house, I will be getting my own self-contained floatation tank -- they run about $3,000, but well worth it in my opinion.

second to last wrote:

Meditation is simply the skill of spiritual abandonment and exploration. What you abandon is the self. What you explore is the other, the transcendent, the cosmos, God...

...Genuine meditation does take faith, because you are heading on a path that cannot be logically deduced or empirically examined. If you have that faith, then you need nothing more to guide you. If you lack that faith, chances are you will allow yourself to be mislead.

See, this is exactly the kind of thing I am not interested in. Sorry, but dogmatic religious ideas of what is essentially the exploration of consciousness through concentration and technique to me seems plainly incorrect.

Again, sorry I'm not trying to bag your ideas, but if you look at my question you'll see that unprovable ideas like "god" aren't cutting it with me. Meditation can easily be seen as pure consciousness exploration, which is exploring a sense of "being", not the norm, as opposed to the sense of "doing", which is the normal human experience.

So I reiterate, meditation methods free from mumbo-jumbo please.

[winky skeptical face]