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lo all
i suppose this thread is about working with limited resources in spaces which are not ideal, and possibly trying to stop making things up as I go along and actual make recording decisions based on something other than guesswork.

I have just started making mobile recordings, so i end up in peoples living rooms and garages and other aural armpits more often than not, and as such I have two questions.

Juan. What types of spaces that occur in the real non-adobe-clad world are, in all of your experience, useful for making good recordings of a given type.

Chew. I would like to record drums as well as i can. I own a matched pair of Oktava Mk012's, a D112, a studio projects C3, an sm57, and the suckiest peavey microphone they can legally sell. Recently I recorded some drums in a very small room with an ms pair using the c3 and one mk012 at about two metres in front of the kit, one mk012 overhead, sm57 on snare, d112 where you would expect.

The result was a kit sound which had lots of harsh mids from the cymbols, cockroach hihats, and a dead snare. Can anyone think of a way to use these mikes which frees up a better mike like the mk012 for the snare?

I suppose the main issue I have is how can I lessen the cymbols in the mix at the recording stage, are there any good placements anyone came across in similar conditions? Or is it more a matter of pleading with the ever enthusiastic drumbo to change their playing style to suit the recording?

tanks

I guess it all depends on the application and what sound you're going for. I just did a session yesterday with overheads in an XY position with a 57 on snare, beta52 on kick, and a B3 for room (it seems like we have a pretty similar mic selection). Sounded pretty decent. If there is too much crashing in the sound... move them around.

If your snare sounds dead... make sure you're dampening it as little as possible. I know the ring is annoying, but that's what makes it sound dead. You could also possibly use your overheads as stereo room mics.

Every now and then I mic my snare with a kick mic and kick with a snare mic for something different.

Good luck,

I suppose the main issue I have is how can I lessen the cymbols in the mix at the recording stage, are there any good placements anyone came across in similar conditions?

I was in the same boat during a basement session...we toyed around with levels in the mix for a few hours before we just decided to do a few things...

1. We taped the cymbals a bit more than they were, as well as the snare.

2. We added more blankets...probably about 5 or 6 all in all, constructing a sort of drum chamber...

3. We removed some of the mic's. We had at our disposal 5 sm57's....leaving one in the kick, we miked the upper cymbals with one, the floor tom with one, and the high tom, and snare with one.

We also placed the cymbal mic's high...this method worked for us under these conditions for the whole session no matter how hard they played(the occasional knob tweak aside)...

thanks, never thought of taping the cymbols, is there any type of tape thats good for this, im thinking from the perspective of persuading a drummer that im not going to coat his custom k's with krap

ivan wrote:thanks, never thought of taping the cymbols, is there any type of tape thats good for this, im thinking from the perspective of persuading a drummer that im not going to coat his custom k's with krap

We just used masking tape. If you are worried about glue residue...just get some rubbing alcohol...it will come right off.

We made use of some paper towels/tape for the snare and cymbals as well....just some folded up squares taped in strategic places.

SUPER SECRET TRICK: The best thing for getting glue off is butter.

I had gum from duct tape all over one of my mics. Spread butter on it, let it sit for a bit; whiped off and repeated.

This message will self-destruct.

skatingbasser wrote:SUPER SECRET TRICK: The best thing for getting glue off is butter.

Lighter fluid works great too. Cuts through the gunk better than alcohol, and it evaporates so your cymbals arent covered in rancid butter when youre done.

Use it in a well-ventilated area.

endofanera wrote:Lighter fluid works great too.

For best results, light your cymbals on fire after applying said lighter fluid.





And take pictures.

justinjbrown wrote:

I suppose the main issue I have is how can I lessen the cymbols in the mix at the recording stage, are there any good placements anyone came across in similar conditions?

I was in the same boat during a basement session...we toyed around with levels in the mix for a few hours before we just decided to do a few things...

1. We taped the cymbals a bit more than they were, as well as the snare.

2. We added more blankets...probably about 5 or 6 all in all, constructing a sort of drum chamber...

3. We removed some of the mic's. We had at our disposal 5 sm57's....leaving one in the kick, we miked the upper cymbals with one, the floor tom with one, and the high tom, and snare with one.

We also placed the cymbal mic's high...this method worked for us under these conditions for the whole session no matter how hard they played(the occasional knob tweak aside)...

I feel the need to point out that this logic is backwards. Be careful not to treat the symptoms, but the problems, when micing things. When you listen to the drummer play in the room, are the cymbals too loud? If so he might need to alter his playing style or his cymbal selection.

The recording chain goes in a more or less linear direction from the original sound source to recording medium. Fix your problems as early on in the chain as you can, and the better off you will be. It's the whole can't-polish-a-turd-thing. Deadening pieces of the kit that aren't normally deadened, close micing cymbals, and killing all reverberation with blankets is a sure ticket to a crappy drum sound. If all these things MUST be done to achieve passable drum sounds, then the room you're recording in is simply not adequate. find a better space - anyplace - outdoors if you must. Don't record your drums in carpeted caverns less you desire them to sound as if they were.

I feel the need to point out that this logic is backwards. Be careful not to treat the symptoms, but the problems, when micing things. When you listen to the drummer play in the room, are the cymbals too loud? If so he might need to alter his playing style or his cymbal selection.

It's backwards if you are working with professional studio muscians in a controlled environment.

The recording chain goes in a more or less linear direction from the original sound source to recording medium. Fix your problems as early on in the chain as you can, and the better off you will be. It's the whole can't-polish-a-turd-thing.

I understand what your getting at it's just that the text book doesn't always apply, and that should be noted as well.

Deadening pieces of the kit that aren't normally deadened, close micing cymbals, and killing all reverberation with blankets is a sure ticket to a crappy drum sound.

In some situations, and this wasn't what was done to be exact. Drummers tape snares, and cymbals. The cymbals weren't close miked. In a cramped basement surrounded by cement with the other players amps nearby, I can think of no better way to get isolation on a budget than blankets.

The drums according to the drummer sounded "great".

If all these things MUST be done to achieve passable drum sounds, then the room you're recording in is simply not adequate.

ivan wrote:
i suppose this thread is about working with limited resources in spaces which are not ideal, and possibly trying to stop making things up as I go along and actual make recording decisions based on something other than guesswork.

find a better space - anyplace - outdoors if you must. Don't record your drums in carpeted caverns less you desire them to sound as if they were.

Sometimes this in not practical or possible. Besides that there are things such as compression and reverb that when used slightly can achieve the needed space in the sound.

As far as not wanting to do guesswork, I really don't think there is a formula unless you have a dedicated space to record that sounds how you like to begin with...besides, imho the fun of engineering sound is figuring our how to achieve results in the face of such problems.