conspiracy theories

crap
Total votes: 24 (47%)
not crap
Total votes: 27 (53%)
Total votes: 51

Explanation: conspiracy theories

1
I get frustrated when people I know are seduced by conspiracy theories.

In Understanding Power Noam Chomsky discusses conspiracy theories:

. . . the real question is, are there groupings well outside the structures of the major institutions of the society which go around, hijack them, undermine them . . . [etc]. . . do significant things happen because groups or subgroups are acting in secret outside the main structures of institutional power?


Well as I look over history, I don't find much of that. . . And if you look at the place where investigation of 'conspiracies' has absolutely flourished, modern American history, I think what's notable is the ABSENCE of such cases—at least as I read the record, they almost never happen.


Chomsky then goes on to assess various conspiracies such as JFK's assassination, etc, before concluding,

As soon as you look into the various theories, they always collapse, there's just nothing there. But in many places, the left has fallen apart on the basis of these sheer cults.


Few people on earth have a better working knowledge than Chomsky of the CIA and State Department's lifelong machinations all through Central and South America (supporting coups; training paramilitary terrorists; subverting democracy, etc, etc), yet Chomsky assesses conspiracy theories to be bunk. And this points to something much more disturbing than conspiracy theories; namely, reality. There's a lot we do know. The truth is out there. But no one gives a fuck, because it would require acknowledging the reality of American power and its stake in global capitalism.

Conspiracy theories are more trim and tidy than the above. This is their irony and their appeal.

In social theory Fredric Jameson has suggested,

Conspiracy is the poor person's cognitive mapping in the postmodern age; it is a degraded figure of the total logic of late capital, a desperate attempt to represent the latter's system.


Jameson suggests that conspiracy theories are an attempt to account for events within the fragmented experience of modern life. Conspiracies provide an illusion of identity and location for the theorist (I/we are being fucked with here in this way) and attempt to capture or localize power, extracting it from the ever more circuitous and opaque systems through which it operates. I don't know how far to take this kind of social psychoanalysis, but Jameson sees conspiracy theories as a quasi-hysterical and symptomatic reaction to the aporias of (post)modernity.

Jameson is a very smart guy and a Marxist, and he too has no truck with conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories are perhaps the one area of understanding power on which people as diverse as Chomsky, Jameson, and Foucault are likely to agree: crap.

Explanation: conspiracy theories

2
Crap if you look at the canonised set of conspiracy theories (JFK's assassination, that).

But if you look at what "conspiracy" really constitutes... I mean, imagine you are arrested in your Jemenite home, handed over to a foreign intelligence agency, be transferred to various places around the globe, without an indication of where you are or what you are charged with. Wouldn't it be alright to say that at least somebody is conspiring against you?

Explanation: conspiracy theories

3
Crap.

As regards politics: people should pay more attention to what politicians actually say and do--I mean, it's not as if their agendas are that hard to decipher.

Conspiracy theories are really just attempts simplify complexity and distill it into understandable motifs. These motifs are usually just well worn clichés, rather than anything revelatory. Ultimately, they engender apathy and a distrust of politics, because they circumvent that which is self-evident.

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Explanation: conspiracy theories

4
sunlore wrote: imagine you are arrested in your Jemenite home, handed over to a foreign intelligence agency, be transferred to various places around the globe, without an indication of where you are or what you are charged with.


I will not be intimidated, Sunlore. And besides, I think you're surveiling the wrong place. My house is blue, not jemenite.

Explanation: conspiracy theories

6
Andrew L. wrote: And this points to something much more disturbing than conspiracy theories; namely, reality. There's a lot we do know. The truth is out there. But no one gives a fuck, because it would require acknowledging the reality of American power and its stake in global capitalism.



But any conspiracy theorist worth his salt acknowledges the reality of American power and its stake in global capitalism with every theory he presents. It's all we do, for Christ sakes: these are the people, here's what they're up to, if you ask them, they won't tell you, thus they are hiding something, that makes it a conspiracy.

It's just semantics. A conspiracy can include any covert action. Chomsky doesn't deny the manipulation of Central American and South American governments by US intelligence operatives. Why he doesn't label these operations as conspiracies, I don't know.

Explanation: conspiracy theories

7
I'm voting NOT CRAP.

Unless we're voting on the term, in which case CRAP.

The term 'Conspiracy Theory' is used by those wielding power and their accomplices to rob damaging theories of possible potency. Some theories in any given field are clearly nonsense and some are not; obviously the fact that many scientific theories have been proven false doesn't negate the validity of all 'scientific theories'.

To imply that there are (have been) no conspiracies would be daft. Thus it is daft to claim that 'conspiracy theories' are CRAP.

As detrimental term: CRAP.

As theory describing a conspiracy: NOT CRAP.

Explanation: conspiracy theories

8
clocker bob wrote:
But any conspiracy theorist worth his salt acknowledges the reality of American power and its stake in global capitalism with every theory he presents. It's all we do, for Christ sakes: these are the people, here's what they're up to, if you ask them, they won't tell you, thus they are hiding something, that makes it a conspiracy.


By international law, the US should owe massive reparations to Iraq, Haiti, Panama, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iran, etc, etc. And as Chomsky is fond of saying, there is easily enough known, uncontested evidence to bring (or have brought) every American president since WWII to the Hague.

The evidence is already there for this. It isn't even disputed. But it's beside the point.

Capitalism is a system. It is a relation between people mediated by my money, commodities, images, culture, institutions, and so on. It is also a set of rituals. Rituals of thought, behavior and action.

Precisely because capitalism is such an exploitative and violent system however--because misery, havoc and uneven development are its life-blood--it has always required a lot of State violence and terror to persist. Because people organize and resist.

Attempting to locate the Gordian knot or Achilles' heel of such a system in the sinister machinations of a discrete network of suits is, to be as charitable as possible, fundamentally misguided.

Maybe capitalism is not your target: maybe it's merely the backdrop to the event under investigation. It's just that the bad guys should be held accountable. But bad guys of this stature are simply not held accountable within the system. Because it's their system. And there's always someone waiting in line to take their place if they are discredited (i.e. the next administration).



It's just semantics. A conspiracy can include any covert action. Chomsky doesn't deny the manipulation of Central American and South American governments by US intelligence operatives. Why he doesn't label these operations as conspiracies, I don't know.


No, I don't think it is just semantics. There are good reasons why American operations in the southern hemisphere are not deemed conspiracy theories by, for instance, any reputable academic working in that field of study.

Champion Rabbit wrote:The term 'Conspiracy Theory' is used by those wielding power and their accomplices to rob damaging theories of possible potency.


On the other hand, simply owning to something without apology is just as effective. What was Bush's response to the illegal wire-tapping business? I will tell you. He said, it was necessary. And that was pretty much the end of the story, it seems. How many Democrats are even supporting Feingold's call to have Bush censured?

My impression is that the story sunk like a brick the moment it was acknowledged.

There is almost nothing Americans won't put up with, and still less they won't rewrite and forget (with no disrespect intended to Americans on the board; but as Gore Vidal says, "We live in the United States of Amnesia").

Some theories in any given field are clearly nonsense and some are not


So let's hear them. Pony up some conspiracy theories that clearly aren't nonsense.
Last edited by Andrew L_Archive on Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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