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The current view in Europe seems to be that nothing good can possibly come out of America these days.

This position varies somewhat depending on what European country you're in.

The Germans, for instance, are quite anti-American these days, to the point that they frequently assume you're an asshole just for being from there. (This was not the case back in '98 or so).

Other countries have way bigger beefs with the US, while other's don't. It is still difficult to avoid being treated like shit no matter how many languages you know and how culturally enlighted you are, etc.

Anyway, I'm not going to get into my personal views - I haven't been back to the US in a long time, and besides, I want to hear what all of you have to say.

everwhere in the world has good and bad points.

i'm sick of people treating humans differently because of where they come from or where they live or what language they speak. balls to nationality. no good can come of it.

tommydski wrote:everwhere in the world has good and bad points.

i'm sick of people treating humans differently because of where they come from or where they live or what language they speak. balls to nationality. no good can come of it.

I agree with you - but I'm constantly astonished by how many people evidently don't.

Plenty of people claim not to be nationalistic at all, and talk the talk about "people being the same all over the world," many of the same people will still behave toward certain people in a fairly ill manner if the get the opportunity.

But ask them if they're racist? "Oh no, never in a million years... I just can't stand [fill in ethnic group/nationality]".

Any way, I'm sick of that shit too, but it's not going to dissapear just because it's bollocks.

Nah, we all just hate Bush. Everybody loved Clinton, I remember when he came to New Zealand, everyone was freaking out like he was a rockstar, even my mum! When W arrived they needed a one kilometer security zone and it was just protests and riots.

It really is mostly just George, the man's administration are a bunch of cunts.

Gramsci wrote:It really is mostly just George, the man's administration are a bunch of cunts.

We'll see in two years.
I think it's gonna be hard for our government to turn itself around.
I think it's on a very steady decline and it will reach Mad Max levels of shittiness by 2025.

Gramsci wrote:Nah, we all just hate Bush. Everybody loved Clinton

Nah. Clinton conducted Operation Desert Fox in 1998, which was, in the words of Noam Chomsky:

also surely intended to be a gesture of supreme contempt for the United Nations, and a declaration of the irrelevance of international law or other obligations; that too has been understood. The bombing was initiated as the Security Council met in emergency session to deal with the crisis in Iraq, and even its permanent members were not notified.

Clinton just sold it better in terms of foreign relations. The intentions were there, all along.

Christopher_Dragon wrote:

Gramsci wrote:It really is mostly just George, the man's administration are a bunch of cunts.

We'll see in two years.
I think it's gonna be hard for our government to turn itself around.
I think it's on a very steady decline and it will reach Mad Max levels of shittiness by 2025.

How do you think the US could turn itself around? Do you think it's possible?

I think it wouldn't be THAT hard to recorver from the effects of the Bush Regim IF the 'voice of the people' were actually taken seriously.

To me that's one of the basic truths that have been uncovered in the last 7 years - what the people want doesn't matter that much, and once they mistakenly elect some guy, there ain't shit they can do about it for another 4 years...

sunlore wrote:Clinton just sold it better in terms of foreign relations. The intentions were there, all along.

Oh I agree, but at least Clinton wasn't a fucking retard.

mazec wrote:the 'voice of the people' were actually taken seriously.

yeah, they should hold some kind of democratic elections.
wait...wait...they've done that twice! bush was voted into office! america is a right-leaning country! argggh!

please glance at this page which features a comprehensive breakdown of the results of the 2004 election. you'll notice how bush received nearly three million more votes than kerry. even if you added the votes for the other candidates it wouldn't have been enough to beat bush. i wish it wasn't true but it is really is.

bush is an idiot, a charlatan and a danger to us all.
but he is still the elected president of america.

It really bothers me how other countries see Americans, especially as individuals. 2004 (according to the breakdown page) 53.16% voted for Bush...it's far less now. Yet they assume every American they meet is 100% behind the president.

I'm not from the U.S. but I've lived here for some years. People are good, people are bad, some things are awesome, some things are shit. Different piles everywhere, I suppose.