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hey,

own a drumkit - but it's a bit cheap - and want to upgrade it for recording.

basically i wanna get a new snare, new high hats and new ride. i saw the other thread - and am liking the new beats... steve shelly from sonic youth uses them too so that can't be a bad thing... what what about the rest? any suggestions? one thing is that I need them to be pretty versatile. wanna be able to rock out on them but also play them really softly and have em sound nice. i play in a noisy pop/rock band - think sonic youth, broadcast, stereolab, velvet underground.

and is it a big deal recording with cheap toms and kick? i'm gonna get some nice skins 4 them... or do u guys recommend a better kit?

well, even a great / expensive kit can sound like arse if you don't replace the heads fairly regularly and tune them well and often.

so try re-skinning and reading up on drum tuning first (there's some helpful, if slightly over-enthusiastic, advice here) before splashing mega bucks on fancy drums.

ultimately, however, this all depends on what you consider "better". i got my drum kit for fifty pounds off ebay. it's a pretty shabby kit from the late 60s but i've grown to really dig the sound of it. when other people borrow it they often moan that it sounds kind of boxy but i've changed the way i drum to suit the drums. i mainly play improvised kind-of-noise music (on the drums, that is; on guitar, i'm an indie-pop demon!) and have just become so used to the sound of the drums i know how to work them to get the kind of sounds / tones / noises i want out of them.

i know it sounds kinda crappy and a bit of a cop-out to your original question, but if, like me, purchasing a new drum kit is at the bottom of your current financial realistic possibilites, try making the best out of what you're currently using.

on the other hand, crap cymbals often sound like crap cymbals. again, you can use this to positive effect, but i often find myself using broken / crappy cymbals only for a sort-of 'special effect' kind of sound. to my mind, better sounding cymbals will probably improve the sound (in the way i presume you are looking to improve it), more than better drums.

Try finding some late 60's or early 70's A. Zildjians. they are still relatively cheap and easy to find. Besides they are probably going to sound better than most stuff out there today. Buy cymbals that are thiner than thick. Going my gram weight will tell you what you need for this. 22" should be under 2600 grams, 20's under 2200, hi hats 900 grams or under on each cymbal. These weights are about Medium weight. This will give you a cushier feel. Some of the best pair of crashes I've ever heard were a set of Sabian HH's from the 80's - Dark, Thin and hand hammered.
Snare drum: Try a Yamaha Oak Custom. Its still woody, but has the crack of a hi-end brass snare. You can find them from time to time on Ebay for around $250. I have some snares I'm getting rid of too if you want to PM me for some prices....


jess

cheap toms and kick are not that big of a deal. often a thicker head works better on cheap drums- try double ply coated heads. and replace the bottom heads too- people tend to ignore them, but they have a serious effect on the sound. use a single ply clear head for the bottoms, and tune them a tad tighter than the top. make sure the heads are in tune with themselves- read the page jon linked to above. lots of good info. if you learn to tune, you can make the crummiest drums sound quite acceptable.

jess is right on about cymbals- cheap ones will sound cheap and terrible. older A zildjians are the way to go, as far as price vs performance is concerned. and look for lighter weight ones- they will record better, without overpowering the drums.

my suggestion for a cheap snare is the ludwig acrolite- it is essentially the same drum as the more popular(and expensive) supra 400, but they can be had really cheap. they were popular as a school band drum, so there are a lot of them out there. it's pretty hard to make these drums sound bad. should be able to score one for $100 or less on ebay.

cheers - thanks for that guys.

it seems like decent drum info is really hard to find. especially at drum stores run by awful technical rock drummers who take delight in making you feel inadequate. muthafuckers ain't getting a sale from me.

i taught myself how to play the drums - and am learning it all as I go. that link is great by the way

so... what about snares??????

blanche wrote:so... what about snares??????

seriously, try the yamaha oak custom. they are great snares. I've owned a lot of snares, including some top of the line vintage stuff. And was skeptical about it...but its a good one. Or another good all purpose snare drum that will always hold its value is a 70's supraphonic. You can usually pick one up for about $250.

sum good suggestions... i'm likin the look of the ludwig - they look the business...

the ludwig classic maple and black beauty brass snares are some of my favorites to play and record. i dig noble and cooley snares too. i just recorded a sonor drum i really liked, too.

i like paiste signature cymbals, which are nothing extremely special but will almost always work for rock and roll. there's a zildjian k 20" ride that i have a boner for right now. fun. i don't like hihats smaller than 14" for 90% of music i record. sabian hand hammered is fun.

there's my input.

wood snares..
a nice wood snare..

for some reason Slingerlands are underpriced..

my baby is a RoundBadge Gretsch..
but that was almost dead and needed much help to get working again

i think the diecast hoops really help..

and i like calf skin / fiberskin heads...hard to find unless you go to a store that specializes (sp?) in concert band..
you know..high school bands..

there are some great sounding six lug japanese snares that do the trick like a mother...cheap as dirt if not free..

but do try a wood snare..

i just get too much ring/ping out of a chrome..

p.s.
the wallet trick is magic on a snare