Premier Rock Forum

I cant elucidate the differences off the top of my head. Though I am sure the Shure website can. Though I bet the 87c is a cardoid version of the (normally hyper cardoid) 87.

As an alternative I have often used the Sennehiser e865 with success. It sounds decent, and is physically much larger, which feels more comfortable in my hands.

I have not done an A/B comparision of the mics. But I usually spec an 865 or if there is budget a KMS105 if I need a vocal condensor mic. I like them both.

The blue lines on those mics really make all the difference. Makes 'em punch right through the mix.

i don't think threre are cons about the beta series...the sennheiser e865 is quitze a well sounding mic too...
the new sennheiser e945 is a dynamic mic but can compete with the e865. unbelievable.

don't care about the colour of the lines, but the colour of your alcons.

The Shure 87 series is an OK live vocal condenser, I think. However, I wouldn't think about using the hypercardioid versions unless I can superglue it to the vocalist's chin. Those things' frequency response wangs out all over the place on an average rock vocalist...

I still like the e865. Not on EVERY voice, but as a decent default. The Betas can sound screechy to me on female/high frequency vocals.

...still wonder how that new Josephson dynamic mic sounds...I'll never get the boss to buy one. And I'm still saving for my preamp project.

Believe it or not, I have used the CAD 95 condensers a bit, and they are every bit as useful. We have a pile at the shop for some reason (@^#$%#$^ sales reps...), and they are probably a cheaper alternative.

While I am not the world's biggest fan of the beta line, I can always find tasks they seem well suited for. The beta 87 is the one exception - they are unflatteringly harsh and overly responsive to high mids. Does anyone remember the original AKG C3000's? The b87's have that kind of crappy brittle high end to them. Their weird peakiness also tends to make monitor feedback kind of an issue. There are a lot of dynamics which I think well outperform the b87, and don't have the added problems that phantom power can bring.

As far as vocal condensers go, I've heard comparably priced mics from EV, A-T, and crown which I thought sounded very nice, and didn't necessitate aggressive eq'ing like the b87. If you can afford the Neumann vocal mics, they would be my first recommendation.

grec wrote:While I am not the world's biggest fan of the beta line, I can always find tasks they seem well suited for. The beta 87 is the one exception - they are unflatteringly harsh and overly responsive to high mids. Does anyone remember the original AKG C3000's? The b87's have that kind of crappy brittle high end to them. Their weird peakiness also tends to make monitor feedback kind of an issue. There are a lot of dynamics which I think well outperform the b87, and don't have the added problems that phantom power can bring.

As far as vocal condensers go, I've heard comparably priced mics from EV, A-T, and crown which I thought sounded very nice, and didn't necessitate aggressive eq'ing like the b87. If you can afford the Neumann vocal mics, they would be my first recommendation.

What PA are you pumping the beta's through? While ALL the Beta's are hyped, I haven't had anything like the issues it sounds like you are having with the 87's. Is your system a bit 'hyped' as well?

Well an eaw rig - so you got me there. But I've used them in some other situations here and there, and I always find them frustrating. They have to me all the problems of the betas (the high mid and high presence peaks) combined with the problems of condenser live vocal mics (excess cymbal wash, monitor weirdness). I also just think they sound bad. I don't know what mechanical or electronic factors contribute to "tinniness" or "brittleness" but the mics just don't sound very "smooth" to me. As I mentioned, I'm not super thrilled about the beta's, but I don't mind the b57 and b58 so much. Perhaps I've run into mostly the hypercardioid models of the b87, I could see how that could adversely effect high end evenness and add to monitor difficulties (due to the rear lobe of the HC pickup pattern).

grec wrote:Well an eaw rig - so you got me there. But I've used them in some other situations here and there, and I always find them frustrating. They have to me all the problems of the betas (the high mid and high presence peaks) combined with the problems of condenser live vocal mics (excess cymbal wash, monitor weirdness). I also just think they sound bad. I don't know what mechanical or electronic factors contribute to "tinniness" or "brittleness" but the mics just don't sound very "smooth" to me. As I mentioned, I'm not super thrilled about the beta's, but I don't mind the b57 and b58 so much. Perhaps I've run into mostly the hypercardioid models of the b87, I could see how that could adversely effect high end evenness and add to monitor difficulties (due to the rear lobe of the HC pickup pattern).

Gotcha. The hypercardioid models suck if you don't harness them to the vocalists face...I haven't used them for anything else, as...well, they don't seem suited to anything else. The slightest movements make them 'phase' like crazy.

So far, all the Beta series seem either pretty or crazy hyped. However, if you are working with a muddy system...and if you are playing smaller clubs...and you have Barry White or the equivalent...

A lot of the time, I end up using the standard 57's and 58's. Sometimes I get work with this guy who has a Meyer MILO and a Melodie system, and then we use C414-ULS's for drum overheads, Senn. 421's on horns, piles of Audix, and...some 57's and 58's. The PA has tons of high end...might even qualify as 'hyped'...but you actually get the sound of the mic at the listener, which is a unique experience for me. Guessing at compensations all the time ends up leading nowhere positive after a certain point.

Just got back from doing some shows out with a beta 87 for our vocalist. He sings somewhat quietly but does a good job of staying up on the mic. It worked out really well.... often sound-people are pushing it as far as they can just to get him up and heard but this time out it was smooth sailing both out front and in the monitors.