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I have a decent amount of experience with studio work. I have a very limited knowledge of live sound. I'm sure I could tag along with a couple and learn the basics/become competent in a couple of weeks, tough.

Sometimes I think this could be a great way to inch toword making my living off of something music related.

Other times I hear that live sound is nothing but fighting feedback. Or else I hear horror stories of experienced live sound engineers having off nights, blowing crossovers, and dealing with all sorts of dickheads in bands or working for them, or else clubowners, etc.

Any experience? Advice? Thoughts?

-n

until about two months ago, my audio engineering experience was studio only. looking to pick up some extra work, i asked a friend of mine who works sound at a bar if he ever needs people to sub for him. i sat in with him twice, and since then i've been working there an average of two nights per week.

I hear that live sound is nothing but fighting feedback

this is the one thing i was really worried about, but i've had no trouble. i guess i have a decent ear for hearing what frequency is feeding back and i eliminate it with subtractive EQ. keep in mind, in your average small bar, the realistic working frequency range is around 200Hz-8kHz. i can roll off the HF band on almost every channel and it still sounds fine, plus it gives me more room to push things louder.

honestly, so far i find live sound very easy. once each band gets going, i find my balance and usually just leave things the way they are. riding faders during quiet vocal passages or when guitarists switch channels is sometimes necessary, but easily done. the bands i've worked with have been really appreciative, they mention how much better the monitors sound than when the usual guy works, they notice me walking around the room making sure they sound good everywhere, etc. i can have a couple beers toward the end of the night, chat with friends who might be there. i really enjoy it. as for dickhead musicians/clubowners, i haven't had any problems (yet).

live sound IS easy- but what happened to me is- people starting hearing about what a decent job i did and before long i found myself working 24 nights a month in every club in town for about a year.
then a friend's band got signed and i have been touring with them for a year and still going. it's been everything from small stale-beer-smelling dives to huge European rockstar festivals.
i miss not being in my studio soooo much -but having mixed in over 200 different rooms at this point i have to say that it really really helps the mixing skills and the ability to gauge what the deal is with any room, club, control room, etc in a matter of minutes. it's a real drag not being home to record- but the skills i've gotten from this whole experience have made it well worth it.

so often people get comfy in one place that they know like the back of their hand and then go somewhere else and then life is miserable.

the point of the rambling is, if you like doing live sound, try and sub at other places too. you get more work. being in different places makes life more interesting. and you'll be astounded at how easier it is to mix in places (venues, control rooms, whatever) that you've never set foot in before.

ohh- and always have at least 10 business cards or at least a handy pen and pad at the booth at all times. giving business cards to bands i did sound for at clubs nearly tripled my modest studio's clientelle. you are probably doing this already- but it needs to be said. you'd be surpirsed how many people don't think to.

good luck!

make sure also that you can always (within reason) understand what the lead singer's words are from the booth.

i tend to always make vocals and guitars compete with each other- which i have kind of become known for- but you don't make the vocals at least somewhat intelligable people get really pissed off and come to the booth and complain to you- which is really annoying! and super loud vocals with a little murmur of music in the background (which happens so fucking often it makes me sick!) is almost worse!
i know it seems like common sense stuff- but with live sound the vocal/music ratio is almost more crucial. people who can't make out lyrics or think that they are peircing loud while listening to a CD can simply adjust their stereo to get it to level where they are happy. people who are in the same boat at a live show just leave or go to the bar.
bottomline: regardless of how crappy or great a band is (and yes, there are plenty of no-win scenarios) -if people, or at least the band's girl or boyfriends, aren't bobbing their heads- there's probably something needs to be turned up or down that i'm missing and i need to fix it fast!

i have, from more than one live engineer, heard the expression "if you wanna understand the vocals, buy the album". FWIW.

i have, from more than one live engineer, heard the expression "if you wanna understand the vocals, buy the album".

the problem with my band is, the vocals are mixed just as low on the album as live. i'm a big fan of mixing vocals really, really low for a coulpe of reasons:

*most of the time, the vocals aren't the most important part, but most audience members don't realize that. the idea of the "singer" is so pushed by radio, television, and every other medium by which music is conveyed that people automatically assume that they should be able to hear the vocals over everything else, because the vocals need to be the focus. usually, this is simply not the case.

i forget who it was, but someone very wise once said, "i hate singers. now let me clarify: i dont' have a problem with musicians that sing, but i hate singers."

*it makes people pay attention. if you're listening to a record on which the vocals are lower than average, you tend to listen to the music more. it might be frustrating at first, because you tend to gravitate toward the lyrics, but eventually you gotta just throw your hands up and face the music.

*the only purpose lyrics serve are as articulations for the vocal notes, like a legato or accent marking in instrumental music. the voice is just another instrument, and i think it should compete with the other instruments to thicken up the music, not dominate it.

maybe i have a point, or maybe i'm just being a pretentious asshole. either way, i've rambled well outside the boundaries of this thread, so i'll stop now. apologies in advance.

i have spent parts of the past 8 years working as a freelance live sound tech in a myriad of locations around my hometown. not being conversant in american rock customs, i can only rely on australia being an indicator. this said, live sound is relatively simple once you have experience. it can, however, be a thankless job.

expect substandard rigs with faulty wiring, bass-trap caverns that pass for clubs, house mics that have been used as footballs, monitors like nuclear powered AM radios. expect shitfaced punters cursing you out, telling you to play records, and occasionally throwing stuff in your general direction. you won't be able to avoid arsehole bands and managers who won't listen to reason or instructions, bands who can't play but are good folks. expect the occasional venue owner giving you the "you'll never work in this town again" speech because their 25 year old PA crossover decided to snuff it that night during the headliner's set. if you're really on fate's shitlist, you might have this all in one night.

on the upside, if you do a great job and the band sound great in spite of how many obstacles were overcome,.......virtually no one will notice. they'll all be congratulating the band.

i'm probably being a tad cynical.

n.c.

It's rather nice that most the reply's your getting are saying that live sound is "easy". Wow, I can't but wonder the extent and experiences these people have gone through!

With 8 yrs experience as a sound engineer and with the last 4 years having "live sound work" be my career and only job-- live sound is anything but easy!

If live sound engineering is "easy" then I guess you haven't heard;
That in 8-04 ex-Queens of the Stone Age bassist Nick Oliveri, in mid show beat up his monitor engineer because he didn't like his mix! The monitor engineer only suffered a broken nose and several teeth.


There's many aspects to "live sound engineering" and they all greatly vary in the amount of skills and talents needed to fullfill the job.

soul_rancher wrote:i have spent parts of the past 8 years working as a freelance live sound tech in a myriad of locations around my hometown. not being conversant in american rock customs, i can only rely on australia being an indicator. this said, live sound is relatively simple once you have experience. it can, however, be a thankless job.

expect substandard rigs with faulty wiring, bass-trap caverns that pass for clubs, house mics that have been used as footballs, monitors like nuclear powered AM radios. expect shitfaced punters cursing you out, telling you to play records, and occasionally throwing stuff in your general direction. you won't be able to avoid arsehole bands and managers who won't listen to reason or instructions, bands who can't play but are good folks. expect the occasional venue owner giving you the "you'll never work in this town again" speech because their 25 year old PA crossover decided to snuff it that night during the headliner's set. if you're really on fate's shitlist, you might have this all in one night.

on the upside, if you do a great job and the band sound great in spite of how many obstacles were overcome,.......virtually no one will notice. they'll all be congratulating the band.

i'm probably being a tad cynical.

well put. I feel the same way about live sound. I cant wait until i dont have to do it anymore. I even have it good, working full time w.benefits for a university, and I still cant stand it most of the time. There are moments when it is good though...

And, I disagree that it is easy work. I find that that doing anything exceptionally good is not easy, which is why there is a difference between "good" and "exceptionally good".

mtar

I haven't done nearly as much live sound as I would like to, or that my friend Mtar has, but there are important benefits. Mainly, the ability to work quickly and solve problems. I have worked under a few techs who were veteran live sound engineers and they were fast, fast, fast. They could wrap ten 50 ft cables in the time it took me to wrap one 20 footer. They knew the board like the back of their hand, and could work around any potential problem in the signal path. These skills are definitely applicable in the studio. I should do more live sound. Shame on me.

Just be careful with your hearing if you do live sound full-time.