...it would be covered to the point of saturation by the US media.

Orthodox Jews do not regard people of other faiths or other races as their equals. According to the Talmud, everyone who is not an observant Jew is inferior to a Jew, to varying degrees. 'Cattle' is a popular description for non-Jews. An objective person would see that as racism and religious intolerance. Objective people would wonder why words can be selected from the Quran and used to slander fundamentalist Muslims, but using words from ancient Jewish holy books against fundamentalist Jews makes one an anti-semite. Objective people would examine the warmongering and blood lust of this rabbi and wonder why we are worried more about the Middle Eastern countries without nuclear weapons than we are worried about the state of mind in the only Middle East country with nuclear weapons.

The former Chief Rabbi of Israel and his son have decided the value of a Palestinian life: it's zero. Why should that surprise anyone? Palestinians are not Jews.

the jerusalem post, 5-30-07 wrote:All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday ( I really hope nobody tries to tell me that these Rabbis are 'fringe' figures in Israel- the distribution of their letter certainly proves otherwise.-CB), cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.
(But I take it that every citizen of Israel is off the hook for anything that the IDF or Shin Bet might do, like kill 100 for every one they lose?- CB)

The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.

Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu's son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life.

"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

Awesome. Is there a Hebrew word for 'jihad'? There probably should be.

Another great example of the killing fever that God bestowed to his chosen people follows.

BBCNews, 4/10/01 wrote:Rabbi calls for annihilation of Arabs

The spiritual leader of Israel's ultra-orthodox Shas party, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has provoked outrage with a sermon calling for the annihilation of Arabs.

"It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable," he was quoted as saying in a sermon delivered on Monday to mark the Jewish festival of Passover.

"The Lord shall return the Arabs' deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them."

Rabbi Yosef is one of the most powerful religious figures in Israel; he is known for his outspoken comments and has in the past referred to the Arabs as "vipers".

Through his influence over Shas, Israel's third largest political party, he is also a significant political figure.

If we ever succeed in getting rid of anti-semitism on this planet, could we then move on to getting rid of pro-semitism? Because pro-semitism scares the crap out of me sometimes.

Man, how I remember the fury those remarks by Rabbi Yosef caused across the entire spectrum of U.S. politicians. What a week that was in US history. All the denunciations of that hate speech that we heard on the floor of Congress, and the front page coverage in the NY Times and the Washington Post and on the TV networks. Incredible. One of America's finest moments. Looking forward to reading all about Rabbi Eliyahu's letter in the Sunday papers, too.

The former Chief Rabbi of Israel and his son have decided the value of a Palestinian life: it's zero. Why should that surprise anyone? Palestinians are not Jews.

the jerusalem post, 5-30-07 wrote:All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

That's just fucked up. What gives these Zionists the nerve to say this? These are the same people that give the okay for phosphorus bombs to be used against women and children, yet somehow they're moral?

the chosen people concept is awfully similar to the nazi higher race concept. oh the irony.

(oops, hitlered)

Hi Bob, you know, I always see you write about the war between Israel and the Palestinians. I always get the idea that you guys just hate israelis, and that we're really bad guys. This is a war, a war that should be stopped. Unfortunately, it can't. No one is right in a war, everybody's wrong.

Now what's bothering me the most, is that you always quote idiots. Like this Shmuel Eliyahu, you quote religious people, which shouldn't be considered, because they don't think right. by that I mean that they say things like "palestinians are not equal to jews, because they're not jews" or some other Rabid people from the edgy right. Don't you guys understand that most of our country don't think that way? even a huge part of the religious community don't believe in this shit. You quote Olmert for saying that he knew about the war in lebanon. Shit, the guy knew nothing, we got our ass fucked HARD. The Chief commander of the IDF knew about this war only on the same morning it started. You want a proff for that? he sold his stocks on that morning, before he got into the "war-room", if he knew about it before, he wouldn't hold any stocks. oh, and btw, yeah, he's an idiot. There's a huge file against Olmert right now, he's trying to do anything to get out of the trouble he got into, he has started suing everyone in this country for all kinds of peculiar reasons which don't exist.
I see you quoting about houses in Gaza being demolished for no reason, I don't see you talking about houses in Sderot being demolished by kasam missiles. These people are also innocent. btw, Im sorry for both people on both sides, equally.
It's just so upsetting that people always see one side of the story. It's a war, a war between a country with an army and a country who's building an army. You don't expect israel to use kasams against the other side, right?
Im not saying that Israel is right. Israel is just trying to protect itself, im not saying that the way it's protecting itself is right, but as far as I know, it has no other way to protect itself.

and please, stop quoting some rabid israelis. they're not even zionists, they're just crazy.
You want to know more about zionism? read Theodor Hertzel's Altneuland.
That's what zionism meant to be.

One more thing, Israel isn't trying to be imperialistic, Olmert and Peretz are too idiots for being imperialistics. Peretz is the Israeli equivalent of bush, only worse. trust me on that, the guy is an idiot. Israel, as a whole just wants to live in peace, these rabid so called religious people are talking too much, they do nothing. and no one will let them do anything like what they're talking about.

clocker bob wrote:[size=18]
Awesome. Is there a Hebrew word for 'jihad'? There probably should be.

btw, there isn't.

trilonaut wrote:the chosen people concept is awfully similar to the nazi higher race concept. oh the irony.

(oops, hitlered)

Bullshit, actually. Transparent.

Antero wrote:

trilonaut wrote:the chosen people concept is awfully similar to the nazi higher race concept. oh the irony.

(oops, hitlered)

Bullshit, actually. Transparent.

explain.

i can't wait to experience all these hells

Antero wrote:

trilonaut wrote:the chosen people concept is awfully similar to the nazi higher race concept. oh the irony.

(oops, hitlered)

Bullshit, actually. Transparent.

While I do agree that this concept is bullshit and all human beings are equal. there's quite a difference between that and the Nazi race theory.
The Nazis created a list of races, claiming that the Nazi race is the best race, after the nazi race, came the mongolian race, later on the slovan(I might be wrong), etc' etc' till we get to the bottom of the list, which is jews and black people.
First of all, there's no such a thing a jewish race, judaism is a religion, not a race, anyone can become a jew, and there are all kinds of jews, caucasian, blacks, slovan.. really, all kinds of jewish people.
Judaism is saying that the jewish people are preferred by god upon other religions. No one in the jewish history ever made a list of the higher/preferred religion and the least preferred religion. Judaism isn't even telling which race is preferred. And most important, Judaism never hunted down people who weren't jewish, muslims hunted people who aren't muslim. Christians hunted people who weren't christians, but the jewish people never hunted down people who aren't jewish, never forced anyone to become jewish neither.
None of Israel's wars had a religious basis.
listening or paying attention to these dumbasses talk on international television is like going to pikesville and asking the patients what they think about Kennedy. >> a better example, talking to someone from the KKK and then saying that America is racist, or that Christianity is calling to kill all black people.

reading that gave me chills

eliya wrote:Hi Bob, you know, I always see you write about the war between Israel and the Palestinians. I always get the idea that you guys just hate israelis, and that we're really bad guys. This is a war, a war that should be stopped. Unfortunately, it can't. No one is right in a war, everybody's wrong.

I agree with your last statement completely, both sides are wrong, and I doubt bob thinks one side is right over the other. the problem comes from the gross disparity in offensive force between the sides. We're talking air strikes versus small rockets. Sure, everyone's being a dick, but it's completely disheartening to see the rocket attacks (like the ones from a week ago that killed exactly zero israelis) be described in the news as "terrorist" action, while the air raids (that killed 37 palestinians) do not. Granted, it's government sanctioned death, so it's not going to be considered terrorism by the bullshit media, but t6hat's exactly what it is.

killing lots of people in retaliation for the deaths of a few is a very similar ratio to the 3,000+ dead in nyc in 2001. The people that used four planes to kill many were considered terrorists, so why not the israelis? Belief in this is not mutually exclusive with thinking palestinian idiots are right, though. It's a common misconception, and it gets used often enough.

the problem is the Israeli gov't is a bunch of violent bullies and our government supports them fully, while if some violent bully, like saddam declares war on a neighboring area (like Kuwait), he's immediately lambasted (and sure, he was a total dick) as an evil dictator. What really separates the two? I see them as pretty equal, with nitpickingly small differences.

Now what's bothering me the most, is that you always quote idiots. Like this Shmuel Eliyahu, you quote religious people, which shouldn't be considered, because they don't think right. by that I mean that they say things like "palestinians are not equal to jews, because they're not jews" or some other Rabid people from the edgy right.

the Muslims get the nut job quotes, too. that's why morons like Marsupialized are so under-informed, that they think of the entire muslim religion as "cavemen" and don't bother to learn more past the fact. For us in the states, it's worthless idiots like him that get their viewpoints in the news more often.

Don't you guys understand that most of our country don't think that way? even a huge part of the religious community don't believe in this shit.

having taught in a yeshiva here in chicago while being raised muslim was a pretty eye-opening 3 year run. the problem is that many of the parents perpetuate evil stereotypes and their kids repeat it without questioning. I had to dispel many rumours about arabs from my students. Now the problem here, is that in a religion based school/culture you're not going to get a lot of that dissenting opinion, you're going to get more religious bullshit and selective reasoning.

I mean, I even vividly remember one of my jewish classmates asking me if I wanted to die when I referred to the area as palestine. and he was just some run of the mill suburban kid. Muslims do the same towards jews, and it's the dumbest crap in the world. It's just that the jews in the U.S., while still a minority, have been assimilated into the majority and get to reap the benefits of their racism. This doesn't mean that all jews are racist, just the ones who are connected to the power structure in this country.

I see you quoting about houses in Gaza being demolished for no reason, I don't see you talking about houses in Sderot being demolished by kasam missiles. These people are also innocent. btw, Im sorry for both people on both sides, equally.

I agree completely, but the reason we don't talk about the sderot houses being destroyed by kassam missiles is because that's the war report we get here in the states. it might as well be local news. the Israeli attacks don't get nearly the same coverage, and I'm fairly certain that's the reason bob brings it up. according to even CNN, palestinians are the terrorists and israelis are not. Stuff like this pushes it towards more of a balance, even if the person being quoted isn't of sound mind. Was the white dude that perpetrated the Oklahoma City bombing called a Christian (or catholic or whatever) terrorist? Nope.

regardless, cheers for the discussion, eliya. there was some info in the part I'm not responding to that I didn't know, and I appreciate the passed knowledge.


best,



Faiz