Not crap. Why make millions of animals suffer when you can live without meat?

Can't wait for Steve "Steak and Black Onions" Albini's reply!

Hosoi wrote:I hate fucking hippies.

Bacon is pretty.

does this mean that you prefer fucking bacon? it's probably less dirty that way.

vegetarianism = not crap, go for it!

though i think the "cruelty" argument breaks down right about the time you look at how nature works. take the spider for example. they don't seem to consume their food in a particularly humane way. or great cats, with the shredding with claws, and ripping the throat out and all that. seems like a painful death is generally in store for any consumable animal, regardless of the existence of humans.

but humans, we're special, we're the "enlightened" ones, the better ones.

i think most vegetarians need to take their enlightened stance a step further and recognize that plants have a life force all their own. a plant will grow towards light. this is deemed "instinct". not unlike the process to which we traditionally ascribe the actions of animals. i have yet to see any conclusive proof that shows that vegetables cannot possibly have "feelings" that we simply don't understand. their death seems to me to be primarily different from a cow's death in that humans place more significance on the life of a creature not just with eyes, but with specifically with *big* eyes. the number of vegetarians i've met who don't brutally kill bugs in their home is awful, awful small. bugs have eyes, faces, the whole nine yards.

vegetarianism on the basis of a dietary, purely "healthy" motivation, that's very NOT CRAP. vegetarianism on the basis of "don't hurt the animals", though noble in posture, i find to be generally indefensible in discussion, a NOT CRAP end by CRAP means. i have yet to hear anyone present a convincing case that things don't just work that way by Nature's design, again, even if humans didn't exist. i would expect that claws and teeth cause pain to more animals than human meat consumption does. circle of life, no escaping death (or pain for that matter) etc. it's not that the meat folks are causing pain for the sake of causing pain. it's just part of the deal.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:a plant will grow towards light

So do humans.

I've been vegetarian for about 18 years now. I used to eat eggs and dairy and I slowly phased that out. Last year I decided to go pure vegetarian, or 'vegan'. I've never looked back and I've never 'cheated'.

If you think this is bullshit...... well, I think it's bullshit that we don't have a national health care system because we could never bear it with current "normal" diets.............

If you disagree, read Diet For A New America and then talk to me.

The list of reasons why I've decided to live my life this way is so long I won't even start. At least I beleive in something, right?

-n

Flirted with it for about 10 seconds.

Then I remembered I would never be able to show my face in my hometown again. The economy there is about 92% rooted in agriculture, and particularly rooted in the livestock market.

Crap.

But, you know, to each his own!

Ike

Intern_8033 wrote:Plants develop, over time, natural defenses, like thorns. This, however, cannot be atributed to a concious decision of a plant. i.e. Human twins are born, and one has a birthmark on its forehead. Aliens come to earth and kill everyone except those with birthmarks on their forehead. The twin can't take responsibility for the birthmark as a concious attempt to survive.

likewise, exactly on par with the plant growing thorns is the animal growing quick, agile legs. so it can run. or a turtle growing a shell. that's just about identical to the plant growing thorns. i fear for your soul if you eat a pineapple. it's voice is loud and clear!

Intern_8033 wrote:I don't think people need a very good reason to eat meat. Our place at the top of the food chain gives us the ability to do so, but of course just because we can do something doesn't make it alright.

after we've educated the humans about this, which animal do we move to next? letting them know it's not alright to eat meat, as they have for, what, tens of thousands of years, since back before humans existed?

In re: plants. They are generally seasonal, we eat their fruits and not ussually the entire plant, they are incredibly sustainable..... oh, never mind. I've been hearing this for over half my life.
-n

I think using "nature" as an argument is pretty useless..

So because animals eat other animals in nature, humans are supossed to eat meat too?

Well, animals also kill each other for all various reasons, i.e. other animals invades it's territory (may i kill anyone who enters my property now?), ants try to extinct every other race of ants they encounter (so Hitler wasn't that wrong, eh?), black widows and mantis kill their 'husbands' after sex (now that would be fun) and so on..

If you equal "killing" a plant and killing an animal to feed yourself, why not go all the way and eat people?

BTW, I heard human flesh tastes like chicken.. Chicken McNugget = the real soylent green?!

i think meat is completely unnecessary, impractical, unhealthy, and pretty nasty in most cases. why bother with it?

hail (sp?) seitan, not crap