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Hi,

So I'm easing my way back into playing again after a 5 or 6 year break, and I find that the kind of music I'm playing now is a lot different from what I was playing then. Then it was quieter, dronier, sparser - think Low, Galaxie 500, etc - pretty clean stuff. These days I seem to be coming up with stuff that's louder, faster, more distortion - think Stooges, Husker Du, a little Sabbath here and there.

What this has got me thinking is that maybe it's time I traded in my beloved, tank-like Roland JC-120 for something else. Specifically, the local guitar shop has a nice little Crate GX65 for $200 (used, no footswitch). I've played through it for a couple hours, and I actually like the clean channel quite a lot. The distorted channel isn't bad but for some reason it's got no mid control, which drives me nuts. (However, the Roland's distortion is completely useless anyway, so I imagine I'd just keep using my Rat(s), unless someone has a better suggestion).

The other issue is that the JC-120 weighs about 60 pounds, and while I don't mind keeping it in my garage for rehearsal, I generally don't want to hang out in the garage when I'm just playing around. Lugging the thing up the steps into the house then up into my office space is ridiculous. The Crate would alleviate that problem nicely. (As it is my only backup amp is a little Marshall MS-2 - doesn't really count for much [though the overdrive is surprisingly OK]).

But then I keep telling myself that the Roland really does have a super-sweet clean tone (and is fucking LOUD) (too loud?), and those 4 inputs are pretty handy, and I wouldn't want to one day miss it like I spent a long time missing my old Princeton Chorus, etc...

So I guess my question ultimately boils down to: can anyone tell or ask me anything that might help me clarify what the heck I should do. Or other options I might not be seeing. Etc.

A few extra details: I play a Les Paul Custom w/a Rat (or two, sometimes), and the odds of playing in a room bigger than maybe 10'x20' are pretty slim. Oh, and just plain buying the Crate as a second amp is financially unfeasible for the near future.

Thanks in advance. I've been thinking about this for a few months and I need some perspective. I'm also up later than I mean to be, so sorry if this is at all muddled.

traynor ts series amps are awesome, cheap, light and plenty loud for small rooms.

search "traynor" on this site, especially posts by "scott", as he owns maybe 10 of them, at least.

the ts50 (50 watt solid state) might be a good idea. I have the ts25, and run it into a bigger amp out of necessity, but they sound superb. I got mine for $75.

Bogen CHB-35, Modded for guitar. It's a tube PA amp from the 60's that outputs 35 watts. You may have to have the tonestack shanged, but chanced are you may be able to get away with switching out the old Amphenol Microphone connector to a quarter inch Tipring. They're also pretty cheap finds on eBay, and fairly light as well.

Hey, thanks. A problem is that I live in an area with pretty limited resources, so any real gear-hunting is going to have to wait for a vacation.

This morning in the clear light of day I keep thinking it would be ridiculous to ditch the Roland...

I do see a lot of Traynor fans around here, I'll look into them (the amps not the fans). They have a good clean sound?

I'm not much of a gearhead, so I didn't really understand what you're saying about the Bogen, D'Piucchstre, but I'll look into them too.

Does anyone have any experience with the Crate I mentioned? And: are there any smaller Marshalls worth looking into?

This all feels very elementary, but I really haven't thought about this stuff in years. Thanks

Ace Zero wrote:
I'm not much of a gearhead, so I didn't really understand what you're saying about the Bogen, D'Piucchstre, but I'll look into them too.

Does anyone have any experience with the Crate I mentioned? And: are there any smaller Marshalls worth looking into?

The Bogen that I mentioned, is a Tube amp unlike the cheaper Marshalls and the Crate, The build quality and the componentry are much higher quality than all of the sub $500 amps that are generally available, and also many amps that cost @ $1000, or so. They are fully hand made and hand wired. --I paid about $60 for mine.

One of the primary differances between tube amps and transistor amps, is that with basic maitainance, ( Regularly changing the power tubes every 6 - 12 months, and the Power Supply Filter Capacitors every 10-15 years) a tube amp will provide you with a lifetime of satisfaction, whereas, most transistorised amps in the sub - $500 range will not.

Here's one for sale fairly cheap:

Steve, shrink my link for me, okay? SURE THING KID

If you look at the picture of the back panel of the amp, you will notice that the input connector is a screw on coaxial type that is not dissimilar that a cable TV connector. This would have to be changed over to a quarter inch jack (IE, Tipring) in order for it to work with a guitar.

You may also need to change the tonestack on the amp to something more usable, but many people use the existing tonestack. The Tonestack is the Bass/Middle/Treble controls, IE, the tone shaping part of the circuit. Changing the point in the circuit where the tone controls come into play will offer differant levels of tone shaping. If you have played through a black or silver faced Fender amp, and then played through a Marshall amp, you will notice a very dramatic differance in tone shaping between the two. 60's and 70's Fender amps have the tone stack much closer to the input section electronically speaking ( Not unlike a Roland JC-120), whilst Marshalls, and late 50's fender amps place the tone controls (electronically speaking, again) right before the output section of the amp. --This allows for much more dramatic tone shaping capabilities.

I have no idea of where you live, but finding a competent guitar repair tech should be relatively easy at a music store. --They usually charge from $50-75 an hour for their work. If you look at the way the actual circuit in the auction is laid out, you will notice that it is much differant than what you'd find in a Crate, or any transistorisd amp, and quite a few modern tube amps. This is called a Point-To-Point (PTP) circuit, and is actually much easier to work on, than a circuit laid out on Printed Circuit Board (PCB).

On another Message board that I belong to, there's a guy who has modded a bunch of Bogens, and he posted a link to a myspace page to show off his work. Here it is:

http://www.myspace.com/laddersandsnakes

All guitars on the song 'Die Alone' were recorded using a Bogen CHB-35.

Here's an additional link to some Harmony Central user reviews of Bogen PA amps that have been converted for guitar usage.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/brand/Bogen

Getting the amp, as well as having it converted over to usa as a guitar amp, plus new power tubes for it ( Electro Harmonics makes current production 7868 output tubes) will probably run you about the same price as the Crate and the cheaper Marshall MG series amps.

Hey, thanks. That all makes much more sense. One question:

D'Piucchstre wrote:
If you have played through a black or silver faced Fender amp, and then played through a Marshall amp, you will notice a very dramatic differance in tone shaping between the two. 60's and 70's Fender amps have the tone stack much closer to the input section electronically speaking ( Not unlike a Roland JC-120), whilst Marshalls, and late 50's fender amps place the tone controls (electronically speaking, again) right before the output section of the amp. --This allows for much more dramatic tone shaping capabilities.

Which does? Having the knobs closer to the input (60s/70s Fenders/JC-120) or to the output (Marshalls etc)?

Also, this is a head, right? I'd need to get speakers of some kind? Any recommendations?

I've got a JC120 as well. While I love the thing it's a heavy fucker. I bought it second hand and the guy who had it before me took the wheels off cause he put it on top of a quad so as you could imagine this just makes lugging worse.

I don't know why you'd put it through a quad though, they a fucking loud amps.

Ace Zero wrote:Which does? Having the knobs closer to the input (60s/70s Fenders/JC-120) or to the output (Marshalls etc)?

Actually it's not the physical location of the knobs, but rather the point where the controls are routed in the circuit. The Marshall/ Fender tweed style will offer more dramatic tone shaping capabilities due to the fact that they are located after all of the preamp gain stages.

Ace Zero wrote:Also, this is a head, right? I'd need to get speakers of some kind? Any recommendations?

Yeah, You'd need to get at least one speaker for it. The amp has taps for 4,8, and 16 Ohm loads, so it's quite flexible as what you use for speakers, just make sure that the speaker/speaker cabinet impedance matches the output. --You can scrounge around pawnshops and fleamarkets, what have you for a cheap preloaded speaker cabinet, or you can look for an unloaded cabinet and load it yourself.

Celestions are recommended, but these guys make very inexpensive copies of the British era Celestions, (Celestions are now made in China like damn near everything else) and they have recieved good reviews.

http://warehousespeakers.com/products.html

As a point of referance, the Vintage replica ( Copy of a Celestion Vintage 30) will have more midrange and cone breakup than the Classic Lead (Copy of the Celestion Classic 80 / G12-80) . -- For $20 what's not to like?

You would have to hunt around for a cabinet to load the speaker in, though. Basically any open or closed back speaker cabinet would work, and you can find them relatively inexpensively, or make / have sombody make you a speaker box.

keep the roland and get a nice pedal or several.

i just found out that mick harvey uses sansamps through a roland. not that his tone is anything remarkable, but it gets the job done.

you should be able to trade the roland for decent combo. no need to get a head and cab if you can avoid it.

that damned fly wrote:keep the roland and get a nice pedal or several.

i just found out that mick harvey uses sansamps through a roland. not that his tone is anything remarkable, but it gets the job done.

you should be able to trade the roland for decent combo. no need to get a head and cab if you can avoid it.

I think he's looking at the weight factor. A lightweight head and a small cabinet would be lighter than the JC -120. Even if he got a 2x12" cabinet it would probably weigh about the same, but it would be distributed between two packages, both being lighter than the combo amp. --My Bogen head is about 20 pounds.