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latest case: blixa cash (einstürz.Neub.) doing TV commercials for
DIY stores in german musictv viva .

Xplanaxs:

g(erman) -> e
bargeld = cash

blixa does tv commercials for a home improvement-store-chain callled
hornbach on viva (german mtv)

neubauten used tools instead/as "percussion" so --->
this is bad and wrong irony

fm unit (" what are u going to do with those bricks ?" - Auh ough oh ah ahrgh !!!") will finally kill him because :

the ads show Blixa sitting on a chair, wearing a straw hat and quoting the company´s catalog ... (.. noisy tools)

(I´ve heard that burroughs once did a nike spot, but that is so weird that it´s cool again ( a fucked up gay (great adoreable hero) junkie doing tvspots for sneakers ) )

Don't talk about selling out. Music-making can be many things. It can be a form of personal expression. It can also be a commercial project. If Neubauten has taken up commercial projects entirely to the exclusion of personal expression, maybe you can call him a sellout. But I seriously doubt that that's the case if he ever had a musical bone in his body.

From personal experience, I find making music for commercial purposes to be an interesting challenge. It's an entirely different thing from expressing oneself through music... quite like a game, where the object is to deduce which (musical) buttons to push. A puzzle. When you're jamming with your band, you should have only one concern -- what you want to hear. When you're making music for money, your only concern should be what someone ELSE in particular wants to hear. You have to think outside your head. It's just a different creative challenge.

So what is selling out? I say it's when you hate to do it but you do it anyway just because you want the money. You can't know whether that's the case without talking to the guy.

Making music for commercial purposes may be tacky, but it's not a character flaw in and of itself.

The other thing is, if you're livin' like a fucking hobo, selling out is a pretty damn good idea.

[quote="shagboy"] It's just a different creative challenge.

---- häh ?

Dear Shagboy:

I have the uncomfortable notion that you are Moby, using a pseudonym to purge your guilty soul.

love, gage

shagboy wrote:Don't talk about selling out. [ . . .] If Neubauten has taken up commercial projects entirely to the exclusion of personal expression, maybe you can call him a sellout. But I seriously doubt that that's the case if he ever had a musical bone in his body.

From personal experience, I find making music for commercial purposes to be an interesting challenge. It's an entirely different thing from expressing oneself through music... quite like a game, where the object is to deduce which (musical) buttons to push. A puzzle. [ . . .] You have to think outside your head. It's just a different creative challenge.

So what is selling out? I say it's when you hate to do it but you do it anyway just because you want the money. You can't know whether that's the case without going down on me.

Making music for commercial purposes may be tacky, but it's not a character flaw in and of itself.

The other thing is, if you're livin' like a fucking hobo, selling out is a pretty damn good idea.

I really have to disagree on a couple points. Look at my uncle:




My uncle (we'll call him "Jimmy") used to be a real cool type of hobo. I guess you could say he put the "bohemianâ€

Anyone buying? I'll sell out right fucking now.

Uncle "Jimmy" made the right decision. Online porn is riding the wave of the future.

my personal sell out experience

i'm in an band that most likely you have not heard of. we put out our own albums, play a fair amount of local shows and tour when we can. we have never made any money.
about a year ago we were offered $15,000 by an evil corporation to license one of our songs. we had not solicited this. for about a minute our feeling was that we would not do it. then reality set in. this was a lot of money. we gladly took the check. with this little wind fall we put out our new record, got the van fixed, payed off debt and still had money to help us tour. we're about to get our new album mastered and we actually have the money to do it. we would never try and get into something like this again but if it was offered we would be happy to take more of the man's money.

and they never used the song for anything. ha.

-elisha

Moby isn't a sellout, he just makes shitty music and loves it

Elisha -

Just out of curiosity, what was the name of your band? Did you by chance come to Chicago to record the song in question?

Elisha,
Great story and good for you for taking the dough.
Next time, don't settle for $15,000 though. Depending on who "The man" was in your case, I hazard to guess that you could've said $25,000 and gotten it easily.

I have no idea what band you're in, but can tell you (and everybody else who's in a band on this forum) that if an Ad Agency comes knockin', listen and tell them you'll get back to them.
Advertising Agencies pay readily for a tune they think is worth while - ESPECIALLY a tune that isn't mainstream.

I'm a writer at an Ad Agency and I can tell you, I have presented numerous songs from numerous "unknown" bands for numerous clients for numerous formats (Radio/TV/Corporate Videos etc...) and in most cases, if I sell the song to the client, they'll pay whatever it takes to get it and not think twice about doing so.

Remember too, whatever you/your band charges for your song's usage, the agency will immediately mark it up 15% to the client and keep it as commission. So, the more you ask for, the more an agency's take home becomes, and the more they'll want to "sell" your song to the client.
Agency reps will also sometimes encourage you to charge more, up to a point... that point being when it becomes too expensive and they know their cliet won't jive for X amount.

Here's a true story so I can illustrate this better:

A few years ago, I presented a song by a band that I really dig (I'll keep the band's name confidential) for a TV spot that was to air regionally (Midwest). The client loved the tune and I "sold" the concept/song.

SIDEBAR: When agencies present TV spots, we play the song we want to use while running through the storyboard and script. This helps us get a client attached to the song early and more likely to buy it, as apposed to selling the spot first, and then having a shit-ton of meetings to decide on music.

The band was on their own label, so that eliminated the record company red tape headache right off the bat. My producer contacted them directly and the band was interested and quoted us a price of $1,500.
Now, some smaller agencies would jump all over this and get the song for a literal steal and take advantage of this naivete.
However, me a fan of the band and wanting to see them profit from their hard work, I picked up the phone and called them directly.
I explained to the band member that he should go back and reconsider his price and multiply his initial offer by the number of streetlights he counted on the way to his next out-of-state gig. Joking aside, I told him that the client had a lot of money and I gave him a range he and the band should consider.
Well, a few days later we got the client to sign off on the song and secured it's usage for 13 weeks for $20,000 - a bit of a jump from the $1,500 he had originally asked for. Add fifteen percent for our agency commission and the client payed $23,000 for as they put it, "A hip, edgy song that really tells our story." Whatever.

I guess some of you may consider me as a small part of "the man", but it's worth noting that most writers/art directors at Ad Agencies are always looking for unique, off-the-dial songs to use in thier commercials, not Led Zepplin for Cadillac or the Pontiac, Hootie and the Blowfish ads that have recently been puked out.
Also, most creatives at agencies and their producers are honest people who honestly want to help a band out financially, not use and abuse them.

Remember also, even if you do "Sell out", you're only doing so for a 13 week run, with a renewal to be negotiated if they want to run the spot longer.

I see what Elisha did as smart. Take what you can when it comes and reward your creativity and hard work.

Because... if you say "no", I or another writer always have four other CD's in line right behind yours. And 9 times out of 10, the next one in line always says "yes." And when that happens, 100% of the time we say to ourselves, "Goddam that band. Fuck their integrity. I'd rather've given them the cash than Hootie."