Intern_8033 wrote:So, in a sense, musicians are rewarding people who decide to dedicate their time to understanding a computer as oppose to, for example, photosynthesis. Unless your art has a really pro-technology message, I don’t see how this could be a relevant reward.

Yeah, but the alternative is to reward people who do something else to earn money to pay for the CD anyway.

Here's a for-instance: a person (let's call him Mr. Winkles) works in an animal shelter and gets paid for euthanizing puppies. Mr. Winkles then takes this money and with it buys a Shellac CD. Would this mean that Shellac is rewarding people who euthanize cute little puppies? No sir, it does not.

I primarily use file-sharing for getting access to stuff I would NOT BE ABLE TO OBTAIN under any other circumstances. Live stuff, unreleased stuff, demos, out-of-print stuff, (I know this one will piss everyone off, but) vinyl-only releases in mp3 format (I don't own a turntable). Sure, there is a quality loss in the mp3 format, but when you're listening to a live bootleg, who cares? It was probably recorded to a low-quality cassette or mini-disc anyway. The point is that you're able to hear the differences between the song as it was recorded and as it was played live, or to hear songs that the band only played live, or things like that.

Another thing I downloaded is Jawbox's "For Your Own Special Sweetheart." I live in the suburbs so used music stores are very rare, and this album has been out of print for years. And even if I WERE to buy a used copy, it wouldn't benefit the band in any way.

Of course, I do download full albums that I can just go out and buy, but I usually buy the album eventually anyway, whether I like it or not (sometimes you have to listen to the CD on a real stereo repeatedly to enjoy it).

Then again, I have a friend who doesn't buy CDs ever (well, he owns one- Les Savy Fav's "Go Forth"[side note to LSF fans- they're currently recording with Phil Ek again, that schmuck. I hope they throw away the recordings and get a real producer]) and he's more or less the reason I am not able to download and enjoy Neutral Milk Hotel's cassette-only early recordings. People like him give the RIAA a reason to get pissed off.

Well, that's really all I have to say. Good day!

Visual art is a commodity, like real estate or... or a house... or a farm, or that sort of thing. Music isn't like that, except in circumstances where someone puts out a limited release and only a few people get to own the thing. You propose this is an alternative to something, but this already exists - limited releases, even limited releases for extra $. Of course, this usually happens with older records by bands who later got famous - bands like Nirvana. Their early limited-issue recordings are worth lots of money.

You'd have to be a fairly well-established and annoying band to charge $50 for a new recording, and even then you could only sell it to people who already commodify your stuff - huge fans, or collectors. Artwork is a commodity as soon as it's produced, even photographs or other prints that are mass produced, albeit in limited editions. That's a whacky thing about music - it's an experience, rather than a commodity. Even a crappy AM radio broadcast of a song can be enjoyed to the fullest, whereas a crappy reproduction or photograph of, say, Michelango's David will never be anywhere near as thrilling as the original.

I think the current system, where bands create and release their music (or someone else releases their music) in limited or unlimited quantities, is totally acceptable and functions well. I think big huge bands might start feeling the impact of file sharing someday, but from what I've heard those records and CDs keep on selling.

One way bands reward people for buying hard copies of their records is by putting lots of liner notes etc. in the package. You think those things are stupid, but I kind of like them.

I like lots of liner notes and I always feel cheated when I buy a CD and there's like one page and a single picture and no lyrics or text at all.

Shellac's CDs are cool, though, I like the packaging on Shellac records, even though there are no lyrics.

by the way, it is just me or does anyone else think this guy is gay?








ha ha ha.

I thought that Realdoll turned him gay...

i feel like i made a thread about these types of issues here once.

if only i could find it...

sometimes i just say stuff

but seriously though. i was just fuckin around.

but i did raise some of the same questions that you're asking here.

i didn't mean to slag you. i'm just annoyed that my thread disolved into people basically just making arguments that i've aready countered over and over again, while you make a thoughtful point that would have been welcomed in that discussion, but you do it here instead.

WHOSE OUT FOR PERSONAL GLORY NOW MISTER?!?!?

and incidentally i don't just check in here to check that thread, i also keep hoping that someone will let me play softball with them, but i keep getting turned down.

badhat wrote:and incidentally i don't just check in here to check that thread, i also keep hoping that someone will let me play softball with them, but i keep getting turned down.

Did someone say softball? All I've heard about on this site has been baseball and wiffleball.

In the "Wiffleball" thread, russ wrote:Here's who's on our side:

Russ
John
Greg
Chad
Steve
Bob
Intern_8033
MikeNotaro
andyk
Who else?

Who's on your side?:

Jeremy Lemos
Brad W.
Bill Skibbe
Tim Midgett
Brian Orchard
Lindsey Geannopulos
Ryan Rezvani
badhat
Who else?

badhat, you were so "in." Better send some more flowers. Maybe this time, to paraphrase Jerry Lewis, with a big cock on top.

-greasygoose who loves the bickering

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030724.html

another cool idea.