Sup. Long time no see.
Anyway, I'm not really sure how to go about UTFSF on this one, I'm looking for information on how to get records to sound blown-out, disgusting, and still retain some idea of what's going on. Much like Cherub's "Heroin Man" and their singles collection, etc.
I don't really have the option of overloading the 2-track deck I'm using, an ampex 440b. Boss won't let me. Doesn't want to fry anything. His Otari 2" deck won't get dirty enough when it overloads.
Is the cassette 4-track the solution? What's up with this shit.
" blown-out" recordings
2while i don't know the record you're talking about, i've heard plenty of blown-out recordings: therios, air conditioning, tony williams' emergency, rough justice by trans am, guitar wolf, etc.
two options that come to mind:
-- run the whole mix through a stereo tube preamp set to clip (or if you don't have stereo, then maybe you can do it the two channels separately). i don't know if you have access to tube preamps, but for $30 you can get a mono ART that has a button basically for this purpose, and for $70 you can get the same thing with variable "valve flavors" or some such way to tweak the clippy sound
-- run the whole mix through your favorite distortion pedal (or maybe one that's not your favorite but turns out to be your favorite for this purpose). again, probably not stereo so you'll have to do left and right channels separately.
-- and if you really want something grating that i think no one on this board would approve of, just bounce the mix to digital, load it into any sound program and clip to taste. just turn the gain up 1000% or whatever, and then bring it back down if necessary.
two options that come to mind:
-- run the whole mix through a stereo tube preamp set to clip (or if you don't have stereo, then maybe you can do it the two channels separately). i don't know if you have access to tube preamps, but for $30 you can get a mono ART that has a button basically for this purpose, and for $70 you can get the same thing with variable "valve flavors" or some such way to tweak the clippy sound
-- run the whole mix through your favorite distortion pedal (or maybe one that's not your favorite but turns out to be your favorite for this purpose). again, probably not stereo so you'll have to do left and right channels separately.
-- and if you really want something grating that i think no one on this board would approve of, just bounce the mix to digital, load it into any sound program and clip to taste. just turn the gain up 1000% or whatever, and then bring it back down if necessary.
" blown-out" recordings
3trilonaut wrote:-- and if you really want something grating that i think no one on this board would approve of, just bounce the mix to digital, load it into any sound program and clip to taste. just turn the gain up 1000% or whatever, and then bring it back down if necessary.
What I was going to sugguest. A nasty sound quite unlike anyother.
"That man is a head taller than me.
...That may change."
...That may change."
" blown-out" recordings
4wiggins wrote:I don't really have the option of overloading the 2-track deck I'm using, an ampex 440b. Boss won't let me. Doesn't want to fry anything. His Otari 2" deck won't get dirty enough when it overloads.
You'll be get a good amount of saturation before the machine is in any danger at all. Why not just calibrate it to print really, really hot and then run 456/911 or an equivalent on it? Failing that a cassette deck is probably a good option.
Find out what studio the Psychic Paramount did their album at and ask them what they did, that record is way in the red but you can still hear what all the instruments are doing...
" blown-out" recordings
5Run your final mix through a stereo pair of cranked up old Fender Champs and mic it up stereo. Then mix that in with the original, to taste.
Or, just sum your mix to mono and use a single amp, single mic, and pan it center. That will probably keep things more coherent overall, and you'll only need one of whatever amp you end up using.
I'd expect that to be a much more pleasant noise than you'd get from a signal-only process like you'd get just using a distortion box, and sound a million billion times better than anything you'd get from digital clipping. Digital clipping can sound really harsh, and maybe even cool at times, but it can also sound like ass and induce a lot of listener fatigue.
If you ultimately don't care if someone can handle listening to a half hour of this sound, then digital clipping might be the way to go. But if you want it to sound harsh but still *good*, if that makes any sense, I'd steer clear of generating your noise in the digital domain, which I'm assuming is what you're trying to do what with the talk of tape saturation.
Something more unorthodox that I could see being fun to mess around with, and it could end up sounding pretty crazy, would be something like this:
set up a white or pink noise generator, through an EQ, and adjust the EQ so it sounds kinda cool. Maybe a huge boost in one spot, a cut through much of the low mids, and very little if any boosting (probably cutting) through the harsher midrange area (2K-6K). If you wanna take it a step further in the way of "good harsh", run that through a tube amp and put a mic on it. Clip the amp with it if you want, or keep the amp clean, whatever.
Then key that noise off the sidechain of a compressor, and get it so the noise is only being added in the proper amount, and being added in a way that will follow the dynamics of the music, so the quiet parts (if there are any) don't have excessive noise being added in, etc.
Not sure *exactly* how that would be set up or made to work, but it seems like a fun idea to fuck around with if you wanna do something different.
Or, just sum your mix to mono and use a single amp, single mic, and pan it center. That will probably keep things more coherent overall, and you'll only need one of whatever amp you end up using.
I'd expect that to be a much more pleasant noise than you'd get from a signal-only process like you'd get just using a distortion box, and sound a million billion times better than anything you'd get from digital clipping. Digital clipping can sound really harsh, and maybe even cool at times, but it can also sound like ass and induce a lot of listener fatigue.
If you ultimately don't care if someone can handle listening to a half hour of this sound, then digital clipping might be the way to go. But if you want it to sound harsh but still *good*, if that makes any sense, I'd steer clear of generating your noise in the digital domain, which I'm assuming is what you're trying to do what with the talk of tape saturation.
Something more unorthodox that I could see being fun to mess around with, and it could end up sounding pretty crazy, would be something like this:
set up a white or pink noise generator, through an EQ, and adjust the EQ so it sounds kinda cool. Maybe a huge boost in one spot, a cut through much of the low mids, and very little if any boosting (probably cutting) through the harsher midrange area (2K-6K). If you wanna take it a step further in the way of "good harsh", run that through a tube amp and put a mic on it. Clip the amp with it if you want, or keep the amp clean, whatever.
Then key that noise off the sidechain of a compressor, and get it so the noise is only being added in the proper amount, and being added in a way that will follow the dynamics of the music, so the quiet parts (if there are any) don't have excessive noise being added in, etc.
Not sure *exactly* how that would be set up or made to work, but it seems like a fun idea to fuck around with if you wanna do something different.
"The bastards have landed"
www.myspace.com/thechromerobes - now has a couple songs from the new album
www.myspace.com/thechromerobes - now has a couple songs from the new album
" blown-out" recordings
6I've been always wondering about something along the same lines. I have this Webster wire recorder that makes whatever you record on it sound instantly old and distorted. It has an inline three pronged input for the microphone, and i think a circular three pronged output. I am not sure if they both work simultaneously, but I always had the idea of turning it into an effects unit. It might give some delay, so that would not probably work for sending a final mix through and blending with the original, if it is at all possible anyway. But the input/outputs are obsolete and would need to be replaced, and if they do not work together, maybe the output could be rewired from somewhere along the path. It would be a cool effect for a whole mix, though.
Bob, son of Kat- Wiffleball, and all around, Champ.
" blown-out" recordings
7hitting the tape hard would be ideal for that type of sound, but simply overdriving some of the mic preamps can get you close. distorting the crap out of room mics is a cool trick. i'm thinking along the lines of Chrome 'half machine lip moves' or 6FS 'severe exposure'..
" blown-out" recordings
8The Wiggins! You've returned! Horray I mean hooray!
Why don't you just mix it down to your 388?
Saturating your tape (like they did on that cherub's record) wouldn't do anything to Ed's 440b. But since he's already said no, I would just use your 388. That thing will be really easy to overload.
good of luck!
Jeremy
Why don't you just mix it down to your 388?
Saturating your tape (like they did on that cherub's record) wouldn't do anything to Ed's 440b. But since he's already said no, I would just use your 388. That thing will be really easy to overload.
good of luck!
Jeremy
tmidgett wrote:
Steve is right.
Anyone who disagrees is wrong.
I'm not being sarcastic. I'm serious.
" blown-out" recordings
9other examples - Sightings, lots of Elephant 6 stuff.
Sorry I can't help with the technical side of things. Distorting room mics sounds like it would get you where you want, but I'm not working with the level of equipment that you guys are.
Sorry I can't help with the technical side of things. Distorting room mics sounds like it would get you where you want, but I'm not working with the level of equipment that you guys are.
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" blown-out" recordings
10Wiggins! Yo.
When Neutrino recorded with Steve, we had a section of one track that we wanted to sound this way. We bussed the entire mix to a cassette deck with the input gain cranked. Most professional decks are designed to *not* distort, but it's pretty easy to get a cassette deck (even a pro one) to distort in the way that you describe.
So try it out: crank the gain on a cassette deck, route the mix to that deck's inputs, then route the outputs of the cassette deck to your mastering deck, and record.
PS -- Is that Felon Wind stuff out yet?
When Neutrino recorded with Steve, we had a section of one track that we wanted to sound this way. We bussed the entire mix to a cassette deck with the input gain cranked. Most professional decks are designed to *not* distort, but it's pretty easy to get a cassette deck (even a pro one) to distort in the way that you describe.
So try it out: crank the gain on a cassette deck, route the mix to that deck's inputs, then route the outputs of the cassette deck to your mastering deck, and record.
PS -- Is that Felon Wind stuff out yet?