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ok, just so everyone across the pond knows... in the states, people who got variable rate mortgages are getting screwed cuz the rates shot up (in some cases doubling people's mortgages), and banks are consequently getting screwed, and that's essentially a cornerstone of our whole economy being in the dumper.

obviously a big beef is that the government stepped in to help out bear stearns, so why won't they step in to help homeowners?

here's my beef... why are these people so in need of help? excluding the confused elderly and people with iq's lower than 50, why the fuck should these people be bailed out? even the name, "variable rate mortgage" means it's gonna change, and that probably isn't going to work out in your favour.

i'm sorry, but if you were buying property and a) you didn't bother to look up what the phrase "variable rate" meant and b) you didn't really have the financial means to begin with (that is to say, you were "house poor"), then you better have believed as soon as you signed on that line that you were, sooner or later, going to be in a world of hurt. so, why would your ignorance be cause for a government bail-out?

and what about people like me? people who bought property, didn't get in over their heads, and did their homework to get a fixed rate loan only to have to sell property in a shit market that is someone else's fault? we just had to take the loss, even though we were on the straight and narrow.

what the fuck? again, i want to stress there were people who landed in these situations because some predatory lender took advantage of their situation, but by and large it was just ignorance that landed alot of people in this mess.

so does that make me cold-hearted? anyone with me? am i missing a key point that may change my opinion?

also, sorry, this is probably just me venting. thank you.

I never expected the Kool Aid mascot to be so heartless.

what the fuck? again, i want to stress there were people who landed in these situations because some predatory lender took advantage of their situation, but by and large it was just ignorance that landed a lot of people in this mess.

Ignorance and greed are what landed 99.9% of people in their respective messes. I only allow .1% for so-called "predatory loans" because I can not say for 100% sure that some folks were not hunted down with guns to their heads and forced to sign loans.

The term is a b.s. term, created to win votes through created sympathy.

Please find me 1 single human being who was a victim of a predatory loan, and describe how it was indeed "predatory". I worked in P&C insurance during the period where sub prime mortgages were the hot ticket, and trust me, these folks were more than happy to be on the receiving side of their product.

bellulah wrote:...and what about people like me?

Yes, everyone should be concerned about your situation and your situation only.

Many people don't have good old dad to give them good financial advice. Not everyone is a lawyer that understands all the wherefores. Not everyone had the good fortune not to lose a job overseas just before their house was refinanced, fucked up their credit through no fault of their own and are hanging on by the skin of their teeth. People besides you are hurting but I am not surprised that you don't see this.

Yes, obviously your situation is the worst. Doubled for unarmedman

Wow.

You sound like one of the 10 people that weathered the 1930's depression unscathed. Why wasn't everyone as smart as you are? And why are these idiots buying homes with what seems like something they'll be able to afford, so long as a war doesn't ruin our economy, when they should just be "investing in property?"

The best part is that you're bitching about everyone being an idiot and not seeing what was going to happen, yet here you are getting fucked. You did all the research, didn't you know what was going to happen?

People are losing their livelihoods, and you're pissed that you can't profit on your investment right this second. Howabout you just let it ride? You're obvuiosly in a position where you're not "house poor." You're an investor, you can afford it, these things always turn around, right?

Anyway. You're venting. So I apologize for some of the venom. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're complaining that while making enough money to live reasonably comfortable, you can't make even more money super fast, and you're pissed because it's all those people who aren't living comfortably that are screwing you out of more money. At least you're not "house poor," sitting in Iraq, waiting a for a car bomber to drive through your mess hall.

fancyjamtime wrote:Doubled for unarmedman

At what point did I mention my situation? This has nothing to do with my situation, of which you know absolutely nothing.

Anyway, onward to some sensible discussion...

Rick Reuben wrote:True, but it is still not ethical to put ignorant people into loans that you know they will not be able to keep up with. I'm not enthusiastic about the term 'predator', either, but I'm sure I've used it to describe some of the loan officers and bankers. 'enabler' or 'pusher' would probably be a better term. Take people that can barely understand their cable tv bill and then connect them with aggressive, deceptive loan hustlers who fix the applications to cover up poor credit-worthiness ( to the point of outright fraud, but that fraud is against the suckers who bought the bundles with the subprime tranches, not so much against the mortgagee ), and you definitely have a 'hunter and prey' relationship.

I mean, Greenspan did say 'take this money and go forth and multiply it'- he greenlighted the whole thing.

I agree with you that 'caveat emptor' is not a well respected warning these days in America. Not surprising. Most folks live in an economic fantasy world- they think because they can buy a tv on credit, they can buy a 3 BR house on credit. It's all the same to them. It does suck outrageously that people who know their means and lived within them will foot the bailout for the bankers and some of the 'distressed' homeowners, just like the S&L 'crisis' ( another con game that ran its course and then went off the cliff ).

We will be paying for these bad loans and bad wars in inflation tax for decades, and that means a rising flat tax across the board.

Glad there's finally a thread on the mortgage bubble here. I've wanted to talk about it for a while.

I agree with you that is not ethical to put people in loans they cannot afford. If "predatory lending" refers to the practice of over-selling sub prime loans while not emphasizing variable rates, then this practice is very much mirrored in other parts of our debt culture. Just as you say in your second paragraph, these bad mortgages are part the result of a faulty mentality.

For bellulah, Rick Reuben, and others who see this sub prime blowout being misrepresented by the government, what impact do you see this having?

We already have Hope Now and Fed bailouts of investment banks. I've heard a certain now-appears-to-be-former Presidential candidate as well as others talk of creating a Fed department to track down and prosecute illegal sub prime lenders. Obviously federal bureaucracy = federal spending = another trip to magic money mountain, for which everyone pays.

What will they create next, a "War on Lending"?!?

For others who just seem pissed off at this thread: I don't think any of us want people kicked out of their homes. I don't like the thought of people burning down their homes to try and get insurance money before they foreclose. But there has been a drastic NEED for a market correction in demand to alleviate debt spending.

It is not the federal government's responsibility (and therefore everyone's responsibility) to artificially prop up a sour market. Far more people will pay in the long run, and no nation has EVER been able to maintain a debt-backed currency. The U.S. won't be the first to defy laws of economics.

Listen to this:

http://thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episo ... sched=1242

will the "war on lending" be as effective as the war on terror, or the war on drugs.

any way you look at it this is gonna be fun.

unarmedman wrote:

fancyjamtime wrote:Doubled for unarmedman

At what point did I mention my situation? This has nothing to do with my situation, of which you know absolutely nothing.

I meant the dickish tone and the overall "fuck everyone but me" vibe. You weren't whining and I apologize for misspeaking.

Let me try again. "Fuck unarmedman twice over for being a giant prick in regards to this issue, regardless of his or her personal situation".

Sorry I wasn't clearer the first time.