Premier Rock Forum

Since some of you have asked me to elaborate, I will start this thread and start listing some composers and what they sound like/do. I'm gonna stick to string quartets and chamber music cause that's what I like and know. This is going to take a while so I will do it in installmants. I would appreciate it if you are to bring in guys that I have not mentioned yet that you tell us a bit about him/her, not just "Messian is cool!" or "Feldman is minimalist crap". If you all have any questions about any 20th century guys, I will try to let you know what I know.

Giacinto Scelsi (1905-1988) - Early stuff is ok standard disonent stuff like a more extreme bartok. However, he had some kind of mental breakdown which changed his musical course. What follows is what he is known for. His later stuff is what would best be called a dense minimalist. Themes slowly develop and spread like dissonant water. A whole movement can go by and you realise the piece has totally shifted or grown and you not sure how or when it happened. It can sound kind of forbodding and harrowing at times, and can drive some people nuts. Maybe a more emotive flowerly dissonent italian version of Feldman.

Alois Haba (1893-1973) - Czech composer that sounds a bit like Bartok. Uses a lot of folk tunes as his source (what most of these guys did). He is one of the first guys to use semi-tones, and whats cool about his use is that it is often quite subtle and often quite pretty. Fans of shostakovitch or bartok or hindemith might like the stuff.

George Rochberg (1918- ?) - American composer who starts of as an acedemic type doing the usual 12 tone stuff that was in vogue. His first string quartet is one of the few 12 tone ones that I think is pretty darn likeable. However, his third is the one that makes my jaw drop. I guess the story is something like this. His son dies at an early age which makes Rochberg rethink what he is doing. He decides that doing 12 tone is just a restricting as any other way so he decides to just do what he wants. What we get is one of those magical string quartets that drifts in out of tonality in such a beautiful way. Melodies cascade from silence and dissonance. It's not the happiest piece ever written, but it sure packs an emotive whallup.

Alfred Schnittke (1934 - a few years ago) - Well, he's one of the modern heavyweights. He's the most important modern Russian composer to follow Shostakovitch and Stravinsky. Beautifully disonent, with a good sense of humour. He's not afraid to take on historical sacred cows and cross referances a lot of others past musics. His quartets are good but his titan of chamber music is his piano quintet. Written as a homage to his mother when she died, this is one of the most beatifully depressing works out there. The way he uses disonence and sound shrapnel is about perfect. There is one part where the strings sound like a swarm of bees attacking a sparce piano. Jawdroppingly mighty. And the end, lets just says it's perfect- the most wonderfully simple piano melody drifts out into the silence.

Quincy Porter (1897-1966) - My favorite to some degree in terms of the strring quartet. He had the same teacher at Yale as Charles Ives and studied with Ernest Bloch (I'll get to him later). Not as adventerous or modern as most American guys like Ives and Sessions, he just simply wrote some amzingly pretty quartets. He is primarily known for this medium. He is probably the 20th century king of the contrapuntal. The liner notes to one of my lps says it best "..... the contrapuntal texture, the free flowing lines of which reveal the influence of 16the century vocal melody in their step wise smoothness and in the use of certain melodic formulae; an extraordinary sense of string sonority, as well as a complete grasp of all idiomatic devices; a sensous, opaque kind of harmony". Fans of the far fucking out would probably find him a bit boring, but if your into magically perfect string quartets, he might be your guy. Warning, most of his stuff is not on cd and it will take a while to track down the vinyl.

Ok, this is taking longer than I thouight, so i will add some more later.

Hilding Rosenberg - Swedish 1892-1985. I am a big fan of this guys quartets. He is Sweden's most important/influential early 20th century guys. Along the lines of honneger or hindemith, it's not groundbreaking stuff, just consistant. Not a whole lot differant than what was going on at the time (20's - 40's) in the non avant garde realm of calssical music. It has that nordic emotional detachment, but it's very well written stuff and shows a guy full of strong melodic ideas who was not afraid to throw in a few atonal wrenches into the machine. A less dark swedish shostakovitch.

Darious Mihaud - French 1892-1974. Not so known for his string quartets, they sure are good, and there are quite a few of them. One of the bigger figures in 20th century french music, his style i s very pretty, very melodic, and very french. His quartets seem like an updated version of debusy's (the greatest late 19th century SQ). Not a whole lot of a nod to the avant garde, expect very top notch lyracal melodies and thouroughly thought out development of ideas.

Bohuslav Martinu - Czech 1890-1959. Another guy that likes to use folk songs as source material. Not very avant garde or atonal, just real strong melodies over nicely rhythmic pieces. I love his SQ's and think he is great. Like a happy shostakovitch or a less confronataional/dark honnegar or hindemith. Really great stuff that won't change your world but might change your mood for the better. he's got a great sence for feal and resolution.

im sorry..i dont remember asking you to elaborate....but ya know what?
go for it anyways!
maybe i just missed out on some thread somewhere.

I asked for the elaboration, and I sincerely appreciate it.

In fact, as soon as I get some time I'm gonna head out to the Tower on Wabash to look for some of these recommentdations. Particularly some Haba, Scelsi, Martinu and Schnittke. I like what I've heard of Milhaud, but have not dived too deep yet.

I like melody. I need stuff I can listen to while I work. It's getting harder to appreciate the twelve tone/serial excercises as I get older.

What is your opinion, if any, of Erno Dohnanyi (1877-1960)? Looks interesting. Have yet to take a listen.

Please keep the recommendations coming!

Salut, Capnreverb!

This is great. Thanks for taking the time. I hope you’ll keep it up.

yes thanks!!!

Yes! So nice of you Capn! Salut, indeed.

capnreverb wrote:Bohuslav Martinu - Czech 1890-1959. Another guy that likes to use folk songs as source material. Not very avant garde or atonal, just real strong melodies over nicely rhythmic pieces. I love his SQ's and think he is great. Like a happy shostakovitch or a less confronataional/dark honnegar or hindemith. Really great stuff that won't change your world but might change your mood for the better. he's got a great sence for feal and resolution.

Someone recommended Martinu to me recently. I've heard some really interesting synchopated jazz-influenced pieces. Very happy indeed. The jazz pieces show a playful synthesis of parisian jazz-styles and have a weird stiff elegance. I've also got some piano and violin works with some strange harmonic mirroring which are little less comfortable. My favourite orchestral work by him is Thunderbolt P-45, a homage to the WWII fighter, with it's looping and vertiginous passages emulating aerial speed and acrobatics.

Apparently he does some really good improvisation-based harpsichord workouts but I've yet to hear any.

Yes, this is good. I haven't met anybody recently who's into this stuff, so my exposure to the field has been limited. I will try to check out some of these composers, but it may take a while.

geiginni wrote:I like melody. I need stuff I can listen to while I work. It's getting harder to appreciate the twelve tone/serial excercises as I get older.

You may not like the Scelsi pieces. I find they need to be in the foreground to get the full effect.

Before i go into the next installment lets cover a few things that you might or might not know. If you feel like I'm talking down it's not intentional.
Location has a whole lot to do with how a composer is going to sound. These are stereotypes and there are always going to be folks that break the mold. but, generally brits sound like brits, germans like germans, and french like french. this especially true about guys from the former eastern block, since they often use similer folk melodies and a have a fondness for dance rhythms.

the darker keys:
germans - heavy and dark, often depressing. themes are grand and subtlety is kept to a minimum. like german/austrian expressionist art, emotions are on the sleeve.

brits- a lot like the germans, but minus the overwhelming darkness but just as serious. i find a lot of english composers lacking warmth and a bit too dry. it's like english comedy and food. alan rawthsorne and ralph vaughan williams are two great exceptions.

russians - just as dark as the germans, but a grander scope of emotions. also, usually a bit more rhythmic. the russians always have a little light at the end of the tunnel, where the germans usually don't. the russians can often be very pretty in thier desolation.

eastern block (checks,ukranians,romanians, etc.) a lot like the russians, but more of a reliance on folk melodies. there is also a lot of nationalisms in their works. i think some of the best string quartets of the pre 50's are from here. I think that along with the americans, the eastern block guys were more comfortable picking and choosing from all of what was going on at the time.

The happy keys

french - stuff always seems bright and lyrical. the sun is always shining and the wine cubbard is full. pretty with little woe. you can almost always tell when something is french. messian is the odd man out in the picture.

italians - a lot like the french, with a bit more somber elements and a harder lean on virtuoisity.

spanish - somewhere between the above two, but with that spanish folk music elements showing up.

The others

nordic - like the weather and light there, the music is often quite placid, emotioanllay distant, and spacial. it all seems to come from a totally differant world than the rest of europe. if ice could make music. often is very detached, but usually very pretty, but not in a french lyracal way, more in spiritually calm way.

usa - like all our culture here it's the kitchen sink. everything is representated and all cultures/styles/schools ripe for the picking. there is an individualism in american composers that is often missing from the europeans, a sort of a go it alone mentality. because a lot of american composers are without the cultural baggage of some of the europeans, american music usually just references itself, and often seems to have evolved out of nowhere. the fact that u.s. composers where generally seen as lesser thans by the european there is a sence of isolationisim in t music and also an " I can do it any way I want to" mentality.

mexico and south america - some great stuff, and a lot of homage to folk melodies of the area. also, the beat and rhythm are usually a bit more pronounced.

the far east - like a lot of what they have done with western culture, its usually a cherry picking of western musics mixed with their own cultures music and sensabilities. often some of the stuff is the most interesting because the culturtal perspective is so differant.