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Today is the day. No not the hardcore band from Texas, though they rock. I mean it's the day that we, as American Citizens, get a chance to take part in the illusion that we have a say in our politics, and vote for the electors of our states who will vote for President on our behalf.

To paraphrase last week's South Park, we finally get to choose between the douche and the turd.

I'm torn between voting my conscience or voting for the lesser of two evils or not voting at all. Yes I'm extremely political, but I feel totally separated from the democratic process. It seems as if our whole system is designed to disenfranchise people. There will be thousands of disruptions today all across the country, all with the intent of further separating the governed from the government.

Basically, not much will change today, other than no more Presidential ads, and one or the other of two members from the same fraternity from the same college, one of two white men with the same backgrounds and wealth, will be the new President.

That's our choice. Coke or Pepsi. Dr. Pepper or Mr. Pibb. 7 Up or Sprite. McDonalds or Burger King. Republican or Democrat. Dunkin Donuts or Krispy Kreme. Bud or Miller. One of two fraternity brothers from Yale. Either way, we elect Skull And Bones. One faction or the other of the Business Party.

Democrats care slightly more about people and Republicans care slightly more about property. Both are in the pockets of business interests. Neither act out the will of regular people.

How do we take control of a country and a government that was created for a monied elite? Created so that businessmen may pursue business without interference from government or the governed? How did corporations become more important and have more rights than people? How do "We, the People" finally seize control of our futures from the ruling class?

Don't forget to vote today for either the douche or the turd. God Bless America.

Which is which?

El Protoolio wrote:Democrats care slightly more about people and Republicans care slightly more about property.

This, and Democrats tend to avoid legislating morality, and will not appoint supreme court justices who oppose abortion. Right now the court is split on abortion, so if a Republican gets in office & we lose a moderate judge, Row v. Wade will likely be overturned, and this country will be 30x more fucked than it is already.

Bush is not only a Republican, he's also an Evangelical Christian who believes The End Of Days is near. There's all sorts of reasons why such a person should not be in charge of the world.

How anyone could claim that there's a negligible difference between Republicans and Democrats, I do not know. It may be a fine line, but it runs deep.

Angry_Dragon wrote:Which is which?

Does it matter? One's a douche and one's a turd. Which do you prefer?

spoot wrote:

El Protoolio wrote:Democrats care slightly more about people and Republicans care slightly more about property.

This, and Democrats tend to avoid legislating morality, and will not appoint supreme court justices who oppose abortion. Right now the court is split on abortion, so if a Republican gets in office & we lose a moderate judge, Row v. Wade will likely be overturned, and this country will be 30x more fucked than it is already.

Bush is not only a Republican, he's also an Evangelical Christian who believes The End Of Days is near. There's all sorts of reasons why such a person should not be in charge of the world.

How anyone could claim that there's a negligible difference between Republicans and Democrats, I do not know. It may be a fine line, but it runs deep.

Where were the Democrats in 2000 when a huge number of the African American vote was disenfranchised and the Black caucus of the house tried to bring it up in the senate who wouldn't allow it on the table? The first I had even heard of that was through Michael Moore's movie. That sucks I had to rely on him for information like that.

Where were the Democrats when the Patriot Act was unveiled? Where were the Democrats (with the exception of the one Californian who voted 'nay') when the Presdient was handed war powers to go to Iraq?

I could go further back but I won't because we're talking about current events.

The Democrats are one side of the same Business party coin. They are spineless fucking pussies who bow down to wealth and power just as much as the Repubs. They're all lifelong politicians, more concerned with their self interest than with the publics. Sure there are exceptions, Barack Obama comes to mind, but generally they suck.

Our system is now set up for a 2 party system but it wasn't always that way. Washington didn't believe in parties, nor did many of the founders. The parties have set themselves up to maintain a hold on power. I for one am sick of it. Loyalty to their parties comes before loyalty to this country.

I'm confused, I have a lot of questions, I wonder, in a winner take all system, if I were to vote against what the state ends up going for, if my vote even mattered in the first place? I question the worth of my vote, I question the differences between the parties, I question the capabilities of both George W. Bush and John Kerry, I question the influence of a handful of wealthy individuals who travel in the same circles as our rich politicans on our policies.

We're already separated from directly electing the President. How much more removed can we the people be from the process?

Yes go out and vote, and please vote against the bad guys, but ask yourselves, is this really a participatiry democracy? And if not, what is it? And if it isn't what can I do to help change it? What can my representitives do? Should I talk to everyone I know about this? Is it time for change?

I believe it is. Let's talk about this. All of us. Change starts somewhere, so why not here?

All of this "they're all the same" shit really brings me down. No, they're not the same. There are assholes who will do way less damage to real people than other assholes. Okay, they're assholes -- but the proof is in the pudding: Fewer people die at our behest and fewer people suffer here when there are Democrats in power. I don't give a shit if some corporation is getting better treatment than I am when actual life and death for thousands of people are at stake.

"But corporations are ruling everything..." Yeah, they are, but they aren't up for a vote. Between the guys who are, you get to make a choice, and copping out is saying "Okay, fuck me however you want. And fuck anybody else you want. I don't care."

"They're all the same..." Fuck that. It's a copout. There may only be an inch between them, but that's the inch we live in, and it has international ramifications (and a death toll) for generations.

Someone want to start a revolution and shoot them all? Fine, I'm with you. You can hide in my basement. Until that day, I'll vote for the motherfucker who will cause less death and suffering, and anybody who doesn't is a hateful shithead.

El Protoolio wrote:Democrats care slightly more about people and Republicans care slightly more about property.

So, you heard the George Carlin interview on NPR yesterday? I believe your sentiments echo his reasons for vote abstention. This particular line, I believe, is almost verbatim.

In the case of today, I disagree with George Carlin in the same way that I disagree with Ralph Nader. I do, however, agree hands down with the ideals.

George Bush is one evil motherfucker. He sure as hell does not care about you or your life. He cares about his 'base'. He clearly thinks rich people are more important and the farther you are from rich (as well as white, male, heterosexual, pro-life, on and so on....) the less important you are.

John Kerry is a Vietnam vet who turned anti-war activist. I can guaruntee he's done more to better the world than just about anyone 'here'. He's dedicated his life to trying to make the country better. If he just wanted to be rich and powerful, there are much better ways to go about it. He wants to help poor people, stop war........fuck, he's kind of 'square' and shit, but what the fuck is wrong with him? 8 years of Kerry and then we can elect Senator Obama, our first black president..... see that's progress. It has to start somewhere and today feels pretty fucking good. We had a fucking stupid peice of shit steal the presidency and seriously fuck up our country and the world. Today record numbers of people are getting out and voting his ass out.People who 4 years ago thought there was no difference are now volunteering, voting, taking an interest. I beleive the message will be resounding and Bush will be written into history as the worst president ever.

I know sometimes being incredibly cynical can be comforting and a good excuse to get drunk and write sad songs. But don't try and say that there's no difference between these two cantidates.

-n

I've never not voted and just got back from voting tonight in the 1st Ward. I'm not a hater and I'd never cop out on it, I'm just frustrated by the whole process. My real point I guess is does any of it matter? Does the system encourage apathy? Or does it encourage participation? Can we really have grass roots change? Aren't these elections bought and sold?

Ok so, we have to choose the lesser of the evils, but doesn't that in itself suck? I've been politically aware for a long time so I understand what the reality is, so my question is, isn't there another way? Can't we do better and have more real participation?

Steve, while I agree that this particular Republican administration is evil incarnate, I don't believe that less people suffer when Democrats are running things, ecpecially here in Chicago. Kennedy and Johnson escalated Vietnam, Johnson used a false story to gain support for it (sound familiar?). Clinton finished NAFTA, etc, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'll die before I vote Republican, it's just that I'm not too thrilled with my only option, the Democrats. I would be if I could vote Kucinich in for something, but I can't. At least I voted for Obama today, that made it a bit easier to swallow.

Maybe my distaste for Democrats comes from growing up in Chicago and learning it's political and social history, but I think in the national arena, they have let down the people they should be helping out. They suck less than the Republicans, yes that's true, but how or why is that a good thing? Can't we pressure our reps to provide change so that more parties participate? No, we probably can't because no professional politician is going to legislate him or herself out of a job. The checks and balances seem to be failing, and it's become a turf war between the two rival gangs, at the expense of the rest of us.

I don't know, I'm still here, and like I said I voted, but what will it do? We'll still be in Iraq. North Korea and Iran will still have nuclear weapons. The social security system will still be crumbling, most Americans still won't have health care or good access to education. The energy and oil companies will still be raping the public. That's all I'm trying to say.

gio wrote:

El Protoolio wrote:Democrats care slightly more about people and Republicans care slightly more about property.

So, you heard the George Carlin interview on NPR yesterday? I believe your sentiments echo his reasons for vote abstention. This particular line, I believe, is almost verbatim.

In the case of today, I disagree with George Carlin in the same way that I disagree with Ralph Nader. I do, however, agree hands down with the ideals.

I did and it is verbatim. I found that it perfectly summed up some of my feelings. However I disagree with him about not voting while agreeing on the issues as well. Yet why I disagree about not voting isn't really clear to me anymore which is why I started this thread here and on other sites. To discuss it and get some fresh persepctives. This election year has left me drained. Thank god for the Onion and the Daily Show to keep me laughing about the absurdity of it all.