Well, let´s first state that i am not at all experienced in recording and microphone positioning... but everytime our band gets recorded i am very curious about the "why´s" and "how´s".
So i am pretty interested in your favorite microphones and techniques for recording guitar in general. Just putting an SM 57 in front of the cabinet cannot be the whole truth, am i right? Still that is what happened to me in ´most recording situations except the last one which was really better. I am looking forward to hear your suggestions and arguments.

Thanks

Matthias

Matthias wrote:Well, let´s first state that i am not at all experienced in recording and microphone positioning... but everytime our band gets recorded i am very curious about the "why´s" and "how´s".
So i am pretty interested in your favorite microphones and techniques for recording guitar in general. Just putting an SM 57 in front of the cabinet cannot be the whole truth, am i right? Still that is what happened to me in ´most recording situations except the last one which was really better. I am looking forward to hear your suggestions and arguments.

Thanks

Matthias

Hey:

This is a big topic. There is a protracted discussion about it on prosoundweb.com in their recpit forums (where there is some good information, a lot of bullshit and occasional enlightenment).

For myself, I tend to mic the cone of the speaker on axis, positioning the mic so that the proximity boost (however much there is) is flattering to the sound. I will often use an ambient microphone as well. If I am using more than one close mic, I will try to ensure that the mics are all the same distance from the speaker to minimise phase difference.

For mic choice, I often find myself using ribbon mics, often in conjunction with a vocal-quality condenser mic. Listen to the sound closely, and use what you know about your mic collection to pick mics which will flatter the sound. This part comes with experience.

Good luck,
-steve albini

steve,when you're using more than one close mic,do you put the mic in front of the same cone as the first one or do you choose a different cone?
thank you.

From what I've seen, Steve puts one mic on each speaker (if there are two). And, obviously, if there is only one speaker in the cabinet he puts both mics on that speaker.

Dan

Here is what I found gives me the guitar sound that I am happy with, it is a little track intensive but I have found that it is far superior to anything else I have tried:

find the best cone (on some cabs there is almost no difference, then it doesn't matter, but always check by having someone else hold the first mic (see below) in front of every available cone). Put one mic (I use a Beyer M260 or a M500 and they always seem to work, I have used Beyer M201 and Sennheiser MD441 and MD421 with success but you can't beat the Beyer Ribbons (except if your lucky enough to afford some other ribbons, which I am not) pretty much in the centre of the cone. I usually place the mic about 7" from the grill but don't find the distance to be too critical. Now place a second mic with a good low frequency response (my favourite is the Beyer M380 as it is rather dull sounding (see below), but have used RE20s and MD421s) so that the diaphragms have the same distance from the cone (check by flipping the phase on one mic and they should cancel out pretty much all of the signal when the levels are similar). This second mic is as close to the first mic as possible but further from the centre of the cone that the first one, where the guitar sound is duller.
Now you should have two guitar signals: one from the first mic which is really sharp and in your face but a little thin and another one from the more off centre mic which is hopefully meaty but a little dull. Buss these to one track. Have the band play (or roll the tape) and set up a rough mix. If your guitar is sounding thin take down the level of the first mic and/or bring up the second mic. It is like an eq with to parameters: bite and weight, all that is always missing from a single mic that is not in the perfect spot.
Once you have a good sound from these two mics (and this is where the art is really at IMHO: deciding there and then what a good sound is) bring in the stereo room mic you prepared earlier (sorry forgot to mention them before, ah well...). I use Blumlein or spaced omnis depending on what sort of mics I have available. The position of these depends on your room, I usually put them somewhere where they are not in anybody's way and look cool, listen to them and then move them according to what I hear (again it is about knowing what you want from your guitar sound, I usually have them somewhere where I can use them by themselves as an intro guitar or "roomy" middle eight guitar). I track these room mics separately as they can be used to create more dynamic mixes. Obviously the room mics will sound just like your room does (dead and boxy= dead and boxy, open and spacious= ...you get what I am saying) but you can do quite a bit in the mix (or at the tracking stage) with eq and playing around with slight delays (0-30ms, delay the track not used as FX) and sometimes heavy compression with long attack and short release settings can work. If your room is carpeted and dead bring in planks of wood, cases anything that gives the sound the chance to bounce around a little.

If your guitar sound is to harsh still move the close microphone cluster further to the edge of the cone, use the eq on the amp and guitar (tone controls do not have to be set to 10 as many guitarists believe).

Recording (guitars) is all about being aware of your tools (mics, mic position, preamps, EQ (on guitars, amps and desks (of which the last should be used as little as possible, because it is the easiest to do and you want to use that when everything else is set up as best as it can), compression, the reflections from the recording space and the medium you record to) and how these tools influence the sound you are recording. You then need a precise idea of what you want to record and compare it to the sound that is coming from your monitoring system. Adjust the qualities of the sound you hear by implementing the tools at your disposal until your happy. If your never happy then consider if your goals are realistic: my own guitar playing always sounds mid-range-y and washy (or at least that is what it always sounds like to me) and that is because of the way I play so I will never manage to sound Hifi and sharp until I learn how to play the guitar in a sharp way.

To summarize:
3 Tracks : stereo room tracks and mono guitar signal which comes from two close mics (a sharp one and a dull one).


Sorry for going on so long in my first post but I am avoiding the Flash stuff I have to program for university and I have done the washing up and tidied the front room already.

Excellent site with loads of good ideas and info, thanx

Tara
Robert

hi chaps,

doesn't anyone use straight signals from the amp?
or even guitar straight to the board via something?
just curious..
if so, how do i achieve maximum results with minimal damage?
is it not dangerous to just plug my guitar straight into the board?
any other tips.
beaucoup des questions...

salut,

c

darktowel wrote:doesn't anyone use straight signals from the amp?
or even guitar straight to the board via something?
just curious..
if so, how do i achieve maximum results with minimal damage?
is it not dangerous to just plug my guitar straight into the board?
any other tips.

hmm, I've never been pleased whatsoever with the results of recording this way. Most of the time I only did it because i was in some place where i couldn't make any noise, like a small apartment at 4 am.

I could imagine having a clean guitar buried in the mix where this might sound okay, or possibly some heavy distortion where you want it to sound "bad". other than those specific effects, with the technology currently available- no matter what line6 might say, the convention is to use an amp and mic.

that goes for bass too, though i know some might disagree. try different mics

Ari

Hmm Line6 is a bad idea, i agree.
so is any amp simulator.
How about the SansAmp? i know it works great for drums etc..
as far as the straight rec. thing is concerned;
i did get some nice results mixing dry-straight signals with mic sounds for guitar.
For Bass... i'm not sure 'bout how to get the best results.
right now i prefer the DI from the Amp mixed with my Ampeg speaker miked up.
any tips on bass sounds.
Also the mixing stage is unclear for me for decent bass sounds.

merci,

christophe

steve wrote:This is a big topic....<snip>

I will try to ensure that the mics are all the same distance from the speaker to minimise phase difference.

ding! I second that as a good first step in experimenting with multiple microphones on electric guitar amps for sure.

Please also remember to listen. Listen a lot. Find something you like. Make it sound good to your ears. There is no recipe for that. It may take recording an amp through a snare drum. It may mean pulling out some tubes, shoving it in a closet and letting your amp struggle and suffer a little. I may mean popping a few holes in your speaker cone (is that story about Dave Davies really true?!). As much good advice as get from these forums, I alway try and remember that these are all solutions someone found by trying out things and listening to them. As a music listener, I need my ears to be pulled to other places. I crave recordings to create their own space on their own terms. I know the effect of radio play has flattened out the range of many recordings so as to follow nicely after the previous song, etc, etc. Also, you can see how people are affected by hearing the squashed, compresses signal of FM radio and how that affects the sounds they go for when recording there own music. Luckily we do not have to listen to the radio. All I mean is, where it is good to get advice from other people to see how they do things so you do not have to reinvent the wheel everyday, it is also good to reinvent the wheel every so often.