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Would you simply close mic as much as possible...stuff like amps, etc? Also, on drums...we mic very minimally...close snare (421 or M201), just inside kick (re20 or D112) and then some sort of overhead(s) (if stereo MK012's or Pro47's...if mono AT4050 set to omni). This has been working out ok on drums, but I know it can be better. I really think that guitar is giving us the most problems though. I guess my main question is should we be avoiding ambient or room mics in our less than ideal sounding room?
later,
m

When I record at home I record in what is basically an oversized shoebox. I have to make the best of it because it's all I have.

I think you're on the right track with minimal microphone setups. Also, try relocating the drum kit to a few different spots and directions and see how it records.

A few tricks to try. Use two ambient mics and limit the second one with a quick release. Use that one at kind of a cheater room "embigginer". Also, if you have a compressor that you can use as an expander, try expanding the ambient mic, but keying the expander from the close mics on the kick and snare. Play with the attack and release to boost the volume to emphasize the decay only after kick and snare hits.

Or just record dead drums. Spoon has some great examples of very resonant drums with a very dead room.

For guitar, just be weary of phase issues, and don't expect any distant miked amps to be very in your face. I find omni and figure 8 mics about 1-2 feet from the speaker can be fun for a pretty direct sound with a bit of room tone, but not so much that you can hear your crappy sounding room!

Good Luck!
Ben Adrian

disclaimer: i don't work at electrical, just a recording person in town

i have a pretty crappy 1 room situation that i've dealt with your problems a number of ways, each with different advantages and disadvantages.

first, am i understanding that you're trying to track everything live in the same room, and your ambient mics are getting contaminated by the guitars? or there's not enough definition?

for this type of stuff i try and avoid omnis since there's already such a struggle to keep some semblence of definition going.

one sound i've liked before w/minimum setup is use your MK012s as underheads - which kind of blends the OH and ambients roles a bit. get enough room in there while capturing the kit as a whole. i've had the most success about 5 ft back and at about the plane between the bottom head of the rack tom and the top of the floor tom. use this as the majority of your kit sound and fill in the definition w/the snare/bass drum mic. -+

guitars i've had some success sequestering into an opposite portion of the room and using old office partitions close micing the cabinets - and having 1 kind of general guitar ambient mic to blend to taste.

i think it depends on your room and how much you like or dislike it. i'd prefer to hear a crappy room miced sound than a bunch of close miced stuff because it gives a more unique sense of place in your recording - it may not be studio A at electrical, but it's your studio (and you save up to go to studio A for your next record). i think theres that addage, if it sounds right it is right - and only you know that.

that's my 2 cents at least. good luck! although i should add that my favorite sounds have been where i tracked the rhythm section simultaneously, then added others as we went. not the ideal way, but sonicly the best solution in my situation. enough room tones without creating murkiness.

ben - funny, i finally just picked up series of sneaks the other day and have been running over the drum sounds in my head - do they seem really loud to you? the high hats jump out a lot - and those toms really resonate. they have a lot of personalilty. i love the drum sounds on girls can tell.

I have a pretty small space but have found that moving amps and close mik'ing has worked pretty well in certain situations. If it's a three piece and we want to do the initial tracking live I'll set them up LIVE; i.e. drums center, guitar left, and bass right (or whatever config). I'll match level and tone for what they're after, throw some heavy blankets over the kick drum, and place mics accordingly. Sure, there's bleed and the band doesn't really have a choice for punch-ins but with enough patience for inital set up renders great results.

If you're looking for isolation try using blankets or baffles for the guitar/bass cabs. If you want a little more ambience from the guitars later you could always reamp them later with a distant mic (be aware of phase). I've even dumped isolation and gone full on with a combination of ambient mics and close mics for varying results. There's something to be said about close quarter performance areas and the results they get.

Keep in mind that no formula is ever set in stone. If one day it works perfectly for a certain session doesn't mean it'll work for another. I don't know what style of music you record. I have just enough room to isolate the drums but they are in the same room as the amps. A little bleed is ok.

--Adam Lazlo

my band recorded one of our albums in a very small basement with a very low ceiling

we didn't do anything differently other than point the amps across the room

----> this-a-way, up at front of room

and the drums back to front

^ this-a-way, in back of room
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we also cut the vocals sitting down to minimize reflections off the ceiling (like i said...very low ceiling)

generally, we cut all band tracks at once. we would cut stuff and see how the bleed into the overheads sounded--sometimes it was a mess and sounded cool, sometimes it was a mess and sounded dumb. on a couple of the songs on which it sounded dumb, we did the drums first, then bass, then gtr etc. making records in that bricklaying way is not as much fun, but those songs of course had more clarity than the others.

suffice to say we record at electrical whenever possible. but i find basement recording to be most fruitful when issues such as bleed etc. are not agonized over to any great degree. separation never going to be great in that situation--the best you can do is make it work for you somehow.

I've not heard "Series of Sneaks" in a long time. I just remember spoon's sounds as being very dry, yet with tons of sustain coming from the drums. It was a different outlook than I'd heard in a while. I'd love to try that sometime, but you really need a drummer who has fresh heads and knows how to tune!

ben adrian