Seems like a good subject here. Would love to see other thoughts and perspectives on tubes from the wonderful people in the Tech Room.
I recently purchased some replacement tubes for preamps. I want to sit down and play with a couple different ones.
- A pair of EHX 7025 EH for a 2 channel preamp - I got these out of curiosity considering they're low noise and microphonics. I picked up a third for a notoriously noisy preamp I have
- A pair of Mullard 12ax7 - currently residing in a 2 channel tube compressor. I'm curious about Mullards, they seem to be favored often
- Tung-Sol 12ax7 - sounded like an interesting tube for the price
- Mullard 12at7 - supposedly sounds good in all types of hi fi. There's a circuit in one preamp that uses this tube type that is noisy... This could help...or not
- EHX 12at7 - had this one laying around. Bought it as a Groovetube... Apparently they are rebranded EHX for fender
- I found a USA Silvertone 12ax7 I forgot I pulled up out of an old Fender amp. (I suspect it's kinda noisy)
- replacing a bunch of China 12ax7 and 12ax7b... Crappy stuff, but might have some application...
What are some of your favorite tubes and why?
I don't have a formed opinion yet. I've always just gotten JJs. I'm not convinced NOS is worth the price tag.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
212ax7s sound better when they are higher gain and lower noise. They should be pretty linear under normal conditions and they should all distort similarly too. Chinese ones that have been properly selected, either by Ruby or the seller you buy from, are the best bet. You can waste a lot of time and some money fooling around with them, but it’ll all come down to gain and noise.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
3I hate this. I feel like what tube crazy people talk about is subtle differences in how the tube reacts in a certain circuit so the wide ranging comments like "this tube sounds sweeter", to me, can't possibly be a thing if the tube is running at 200V in one amp and 300V in another - let alone the position in the circuit, or for power tubes the actual bias point which makes a very palatable difference that you can hear in real time in any amp with adjustment
I have enough amps that this should be a thing, and I don't get the thing at all. Maybe I don't have discerning taste.
I have enough amps that this should be a thing, and I don't get the thing at all. Maybe I don't have discerning taste.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
4I replaced the stock tubes in a Drawmer eq and compressor with Mullards. 12ax7s in the compressor, 12at7s in the eq. Both improved considerably. Smoother highs/high mids, more extended low and high end, more detailed sound, just nicer all around.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
5Dammit I thought this was gonna be about drugs. Im literally the worlds worst “tube” roller…
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
6I have to admit, I'm not really into being nitpicky about these subtle qualities. I'm interested in low noise and microphonics with console/mic preamps specifically. There's so many variables in play, it's hard to say if the same tube would offer similar signals in different devices.TylerDeadPine wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:06 am I hate this. I feel like what tube crazy people talk about is subtle differences in how the tube reacts in a certain circuit so the wide ranging comments like "this tube sounds sweeter", to me, can't possibly be a thing if the tube is running at 200V in one amp and 300V in another - let alone the position in the circuit, or for power tubes the actual bias point which makes a very palatable difference that you can hear in real time in any amp with adjustment
I have enough amps that this should be a thing, and I don't get the thing at all. Maybe I don't have discerning taste.
However, i like the idea of using a variety of tubes in different preamps and just rolling with the punches in the subtle differences. I think they do add up in the sense that these varieties can bring a little depth. That includes using different preamps and I like the chaos, I guess. As long as the signal isn't noisy.
Part of me is interested it knowing what the subtlties are, but I might not really have the patience to try myself. I do know that some of these China tubes I have are pretty noisy, which is unacceptable to me.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
7ah! I totally missed the intent there, I'm often in caveman me-hit-guitar-sound-good mindset. Noise & Microphonics hugely varies, or just even old tubescakes wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:21 pmI have to admit, I'm not really into being nitpicky about these subtle qualities. I'm interested in low noise and microphonics with console/mic preamps specifically. There's so many variables in play, it's hard to say if the same tube would offer similar signals in different devices.TylerDeadPine wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:06 am I hate this. I feel like what tube crazy people talk about is subtle differences in how the tube reacts in a certain circuit so the wide ranging comments like "this tube sounds sweeter", to me, can't possibly be a thing if the tube is running at 200V in one amp and 300V in another - let alone the position in the circuit, or for power tubes the actual bias point which makes a very palatable difference that you can hear in real time in any amp with adjustment
I have enough amps that this should be a thing, and I don't get the thing at all. Maybe I don't have discerning taste.
However, i like the idea of using a variety of tubes in different preamps and just rolling with the punches in the subtle differences. I think they do add up in the sense that these varieties can bring a little depth. That includes using different preamps and I like the chaos, I guess. As long as the signal isn't noisy.
Part of me is interested it knowing what the subtlties are, but I might not really have the patience to try myself. I do know that some of these China tubes I have are pretty noisy, which is unacceptable to me.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
8Here are my current preamp tube opinions in guitar and bass amps:
1) I hate JJ preamp tubes. They don't sound bad, but they've given me intermittent problems in almost every amp I've used them in. I suspect the tube pins are smaller in diameter. Probably solved by re-tensioning sockets, which I don't feel comfortable doing.
2) for new production 12AX7 the Tung-Sol has been my go to in recent years - for V1. The glass is a little larger though so they don't fit in everything.
3) The run of the mill Sovtek 12AX7 is durable and will take a beating but sounds a bit dull.
4) The EHX one can be a little harsh in the high end in some amps, but works great.
5) The orange print RCAs are still my favorite sounding tube, but there's no way I'd pay for NOS. I'll have to be happy with what I've pulled from Fender amps that I've bought and sold over the years.
6) The Mullard reissues sound like they have less headroom than others out of the same factory. They do not sound like the one and only OG Mullard I own.
In the end, I think that if you run the knobs on your amp in the middle of their range, swapping tubes in and out doesn't produce night and day differences unless the one you are replacing is at or near the end of its lifespan. You're going to notice subtle differences in the extreme top end and the tightness of the lows in a similar way to different cables. Occasionally you might hear a slight difference in the mids. I've come to the conclusion that in most instances I can compensate for most differences with bass and volume knobs. Or the tone control on my guitar. Or at least "good enough". This is a quest I've gone on before, but one that I'm no longer interested in pursuing.
Happy hunting.
EDIT: Noise definitely varies pretty wildly. I don't feel like microphonics are as essential in a mic pre where vibrations don't come into play. I could be wrong though.
1) I hate JJ preamp tubes. They don't sound bad, but they've given me intermittent problems in almost every amp I've used them in. I suspect the tube pins are smaller in diameter. Probably solved by re-tensioning sockets, which I don't feel comfortable doing.
2) for new production 12AX7 the Tung-Sol has been my go to in recent years - for V1. The glass is a little larger though so they don't fit in everything.
3) The run of the mill Sovtek 12AX7 is durable and will take a beating but sounds a bit dull.
4) The EHX one can be a little harsh in the high end in some amps, but works great.
5) The orange print RCAs are still my favorite sounding tube, but there's no way I'd pay for NOS. I'll have to be happy with what I've pulled from Fender amps that I've bought and sold over the years.
6) The Mullard reissues sound like they have less headroom than others out of the same factory. They do not sound like the one and only OG Mullard I own.
In the end, I think that if you run the knobs on your amp in the middle of their range, swapping tubes in and out doesn't produce night and day differences unless the one you are replacing is at or near the end of its lifespan. You're going to notice subtle differences in the extreme top end and the tightness of the lows in a similar way to different cables. Occasionally you might hear a slight difference in the mids. I've come to the conclusion that in most instances I can compensate for most differences with bass and volume knobs. Or the tone control on my guitar. Or at least "good enough". This is a quest I've gone on before, but one that I'm no longer interested in pursuing.
Happy hunting.
EDIT: Noise definitely varies pretty wildly. I don't feel like microphonics are as essential in a mic pre where vibrations don't come into play. I could be wrong though.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
9Great post - I concur on the Tung-Sol front for whatever it was worth, had the same Tung-sol issues with a couple shields. I've had two Tung-Sols DOA, but overall they've sounded 'consistent'tommy wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:22 am Here are my current preamp tube opinions in guitar and bass amps:
1) I hate JJ preamp tubes. They don't sound bad, but they've given me intermittent problems in almost every amp I've used them in. I suspect the tube pins are smaller in diameter. Probably solved by re-tensioning sockets, which I don't feel comfortable doing.
2) for new production 12AX7 the Tung-Sol has been my go to in recent years - for V1. The glass is a little larger though so they don't fit in everything.
3) The run of the mill Sovtek 12AX7 is durable and will take a beating but sounds a bit dull.
4) The EHX one can be a little harsh in the high end in some amps, but works great.
5) The orange print RCAs are still my favorite sounding tube, but there's no way I'd pay for NOS. I'll have to be happy with what I've pulled from Fender amps that I've bought and sold over the years.
6) The Mullard reissues sound like they have less headroom than others out of the same factory. They do not sound like the one and only OG Mullard I own.
In the end, I think that if you run the knobs on your amp in the middle of their range, swapping tubes in and out doesn't produce night and day differences unless the one you are replacing is at or near the end of its lifespan. You're going to notice subtle differences in the extreme top end and the tightness of the lows in a similar way to different cables. Occasionally you might hear a slight difference in the mids. I've come to the conclusion that in most instances I can compensate for most differences with bass and volume knobs. Or the tone control on my guitar. Or at least "good enough". This is a quest I've gone on before, but one that I'm no longer interested in pursuing.
Happy hunting.
EDIT: Noise definitely varies pretty wildly. I don't feel like microphonics are as essential in a mic pre where vibrations don't come into play. I could be wrong though.
Re: The All Encompassing Tube Rolling Thread
10This is probably the result of a bad batch, but this past summer i had a number of them fail catastrophically. I bought like 6 or 8 for a few amp projects and more than half of them die via some sort of failure where they lost vacuum and the glass cracked. I got real good at removing tube-halves by poking them out from the bottom side with a wooden skewer. Replaced em with JJs and moved on.tommy wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:22 am 2) for new production 12AX7 the Tung-Sol has been my go to in recent years - for V1. The glass is a little larger though so they don't fit in everything.