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I have a Dano with a zero fret. Bending the low E isn't really working, as there's a groove in the zero fret, which causes bends to pop the string out with a twang.

The groove looks kinda shallow at the mo. Never having done any fret dressing or crowning, is this something I can address myself? Get a crowning file and give it a go?

Getting a stainless steel zero fret put in by a luthier seems to the long term solution, but I have my first cheap old acoustic which desperately needs fretwork, which I'm keen to attempt to have a go at myself.

Crowning it isnt gonna do much. Crowning is just restoring the round shape to fret after it has been leveled. What you would need to do here is a form of leveling, i.e. taking some height off the fret. You'd need to take enough material off the top so that the divot is no longer there, and THEN re-crown. The problem with doing this is that you run the risk of reducing the height too much and then the zero fret (or areas on it) may be too low to play well with the rest of the frets. If I were to approach it, i'd measure the height of my first fret, add what I want my action at the first fret to be, and see how much room I have to work with in terms of height reduction on the zero fret. Then you can start leveling the zero fret accordingly but being very careful that you dont go beyond your goal height.

It's a bit tricky, but not CRAZY. If you have the tools i'd say go for it, and if you fuck it up you can always get it replaced by a pro.

Dr Tony Balls wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:11 am Crowning it isnt gonna do much. Crowning is just restoring the round shape to fret after it has been leveled. What you would need to do here is a form of leveling, i.e. taking some height off the fret. You'd need to take enough material off the top so that the divot is no longer there, and THEN re-crown. The problem with doing this is that you run the risk of reducing the height too much and then the zero fret (or areas on it) may be too low to play well with the rest of the frets. If I were to approach it, i'd measure the height of my first fret, add what I want my action at the first fret to be, and see how much room I have to work with in terms of height reduction on the zero fret. Then you can start leveling the zero fret accordingly but being very careful that you dont go beyond your goal height.

It's a bit tricky, but not CRAZY. If you have the tools i'd say go for it, and if you fuck it up you can always get it replaced by a pro.

+1 to all of that. Measuring fret heights accurately can be a bit tricky because of the geometry. Best bet is get a straight edge and feeler-gauges/shims.
Also if the depth divot on that fret, or the lowest divot on any of your frets, looks like it would leave the fret too small for your liking, then you may want to skip trying
to save the frets and go straight to a re-fret. that said, your picture looks fine.

So, tools you would need to do this yourself.

- Accurate straight edge that can span at least two frets, and another one that can go from First fret to 15th
- Feeler gauges
- Sharpie or similar for marking top of frets to make sure you hit them all while filing so you're filing flat.
- Flat file (there's ones specifically for fret work, they are definitely easier on the hands)
- crowning file (you can also use a triangular file, but a crowning file is a lot nicer/friendlier to newbies)
- tape for the fretboard (the blue tape is nice), and to cover the magnets on your pickups from steel wool if you use it
- Sandpaper grits 400,500,800,1000
- 0000 Steel wool (1000 grit + steel wool is if you want the frets to look nice)
-

I have nothing to add, but this is an interesting topic. I do have a guitar that needs a refret but it's an old Guild so I'm not gonna entertain DIY for that. I am, however, thinking about getting a Squier strat at some point and my experience is they basically play fine, but no one really went the extra mile with stuff like nut adjustment and rounding fret edges and stuff like that.

Thanks for all the responses. I think doing it "properly" - i.e. accurately relevelling the whole zero fret is beyond me, in terms of tools (particularly for accurate measuring) if not skill. It certainly would end up way more expensive than taking it to the man.

BUT the problem (at the moment) isn't the height of the E string or its relation to the other strings, with the zero fret doing most of what a nut normally does. I'm fine with the string height at the lowest point of the groove (where it currently rests) - the problem for me is that fret immediately either side is higher, so it catches when I bend it. In theory, if I'm fine with the current intonation and action, as long as I'm careful not to take off more metal from the deepest point, I could sand the "walls" of the groove down until there is no longer a groove, which would remove the pinging during bending. Or is this doomed to failure?

Dudley wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:53 am Thanks for all the responses. I think doing it "properly" - i.e. accurately relevelling the whole zero fret is beyond me, in terms of tools (particularly for accurate measuring) if not skill. It certainly would end up way more expensive than taking it to the man.

BUT the problem (at the moment) isn't the height of the E string or its relation to the other strings, with the zero fret doing most of what a nut normally does. I'm fine with the string height at the lowest point of the groove (where it currently rests) - the problem for me is that fret immediately either side is higher, so it catches when I bend it. In theory, if I'm fine with the current intonation and action, as long as I'm careful not to take off more metal from the deepest point, I could sand the "walls" of the groove down until there is no longer a groove, which would remove the pinging during bending. Or is this doomed to failure?

Probably not ideal, but maybe, maybe you could do a really thorough polish of the divot to make the surface smoother as to not grab. Use a progression of sandpaper grit to not level the divot but to make it slick. My recent Squier needed this on some frets (though not as bad as your zero fret). Don’t blame me if this fucks it up, but it might make it easier to live with for a while.

Dudley wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:53 am Thanks for all the responses. I think doing it "properly" - i.e. accurately relevelling the whole zero fret is beyond me, in terms of tools (particularly for accurate measuring) if not skill. It certainly would end up way more expensive than taking it to the man.

BUT the problem (at the moment) isn't the height of the E string or its relation to the other strings, with the zero fret doing most of what a nut normally does. I'm fine with the string height at the lowest point of the groove (where it currently rests) - the problem for me is that fret immediately either side is higher, so it catches when I bend it. In theory, if I'm fine with the current intonation and action, as long as I'm careful not to take off more metal from the deepest point, I could sand the "walls" of the groove down until there is no longer a groove, which would remove the pinging during bending. Or is this doomed to failure?

if it does work you'll have to re-do it sooner than later I would suspect. By all means though - if this isn't your touring machine, easy enough to try

Happy to walk you through the process. It is 'A LOT' easier than it sounds, and really doesn't require much in the way of tools or measuring. A zero fret is different than the others, and should require overall much less fussing.

All you need is a file (literally any file, even a cheap little file), some masking tape and a couple bits of sandpaper.

The broad strokes:
-put tape on either side of the fret (cover the nut in this case).
-Mark the top of the fret with a marker to make things easier to see.
-Then slowly / lightly run the file across the top of the fret. re-mark every 3-4 strokes. Just do this until the divot is gone.
-Then round the edges if you want to...but a zero fret doesn't much matter.
-hit with a few grits of paper/steel wool to make it as smooth as you want.

The only potential 'screw up' is if you file down way past the divot, which may result in some buzz on the 1st fret...but going slow and re-marking frequently will keep you from over-doing it.

c jury wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:49 pm -Then round the edges if you want to...but a zero fret doesn't much matter.

I don’t agree with this sentiment. If you want your open strings to be in tune it really does matter. The zero fret is likely set so the the center of it is the proper distance from the center of the first fret. If you just level without properly crowning the zero fret the point of contact of the strings will be closer to the first fret than it should be. It may only be a few cents sharp but it will be aggravating and noticeable.

Jon

Barbo wrote: Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:53 am

c jury wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:49 pm -Then round the edges if you want to...but a zero fret doesn't much matter.

I don’t agree with this sentiment. If you want your open strings to be in tune it really does matter. The zero fret is likely set so the the center of it is the proper distance from the center of the first fret. If you just level without properly crowning the zero fret the point of contact of the strings will be closer to the first fret than it should be. It may only be a few cents sharp but it will be aggravating and noticeable.

Jon

I agree with this disagreement. The crown on this absolutely matters.