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Does anyone else know much about the production of Nevermind? I bought a book about it in which Butch Vig describes using a sampler to play the "I don't know why" vocals on Stay Away. That sounds dodgy to me. He says he did it to line up the vox exactly with the guitar.

Do you know any other dodgy techniques used in this album? Using a sampler seems a bit over the top.

that seems entirely reasonable. it wouldn't surprise me in the least, nor would it change my opinion of that band or that album.

for example, if a band used a keyboard other than a real, acoustic piano, would you take issue with it? any "sampling" keyboard that makes a string sound, or a horn sound, or a piano sound, or an orchestra hit, etc, it's essentially the same thing. push a button and a specific sound comes out.

toomanyhelicopters wrote:that seems entirely reasonable. it wouldn't surprise me in the least, nor would it change my opinion of that band or that album.

for example, if a band used a keyboard other than a real, acoustic piano, would you take issue with it? any "sampling" keyboard that makes a string sound, or a horn sound, or a piano sound, or an orchestra hit, etc, it's essentially the same thing. push a button and a specific sound comes out.

I take issue with it. There is a huge difference between the "real" instrument and the synthetic one. There are always new technologies that are supposedly capable of being as good as the "real thing." They aren't. A sampler for those vocals? I can't tell. All I know is that they all sound the same and it makes the song sound stale and shitty.
Someone else on the forum mentioned that the drums were triggered (i.e. not the real drum sounds). Can I tell? No. But the album sounds stale and shitty.

-Noah

O.K, that's a fair point - sampling and synthesis are fine in my book - I own a sampler and use it. But.. would it still be ok if the entire album was produced using samples? In my opinion no. Do you agree with autotune? If I can't play an instrument part in time shall I just sample it and play it using a sequencer? I enjoy the polished production of Nevermind and I am happy with the use of sampling and synthesis in general, but is this not going a bit far?

I read that Andy Wallace used triggered samples behind some of the drum parts when he mixed the record. I also read that some of Kurt Cobain's vocal parts were sampled and then doubled up.

But I don't know. I wasn't there.

I just can't imagine having to use any tricks to make Dave Grohl's drums or Kurt Cobain's voice sound better.

Rodabod wrote:If I can't play an instrument part in time shall I just sample it and play it using a sequencer?

No.

To elaborate on why I think sampling and triggering is pointless:
I like the idea of not caring how an album was made, but it rarely happens. As a listener, I do not want to be fooled. I would like to listen to a band performing. Why should band pull a one-over on the listener by not actually playing the instruments? Why not just record the way the band plays? I have no objection to an electronic instrument that is its own entity. A Theremin sounds like a Theremin. It was not invented to trick anyone. Using drum triggers and samplers is a sign of trickery, because the real performance of the band is not being recorded; rather the sound is fabricated. This is cheating. As Bradley says, how would you improve upon Dave Grohl's drum sounds? Taking it a step further, how can you improve upon reality? How is there anything better than what the band really is?

-Noah

Rodabod wrote:
#1 : would it still be ok if the entire album was produced using samples?

#2 : Do you agree with autotune?

#3 : If I can't play an instrument part in time shall I just sample it and play it using a sequencer?

#4 : I enjoy the polished production of Nevermind and I am happy with the use of sampling and synthesis in general, but is this not going a bit far?

#1 : no, i don't like electronic music very much at all. if nirvana was skinny puppy, i would've disliked them instead of liking them.

#2 : not so much

#3 : no, you should stop pretending you're a musician and just give it up

#4 : triggering a specific backing vocal take, repeatedly? no, it's not too much. if they triggered a sample of the vocal at the end of On A Plain, that probably woulda sounded wrong. but the example we're talking about here, i have no problem with it whatsoever. this is not milli vanilli. this is not ashlee simpson. kurt cobain had a hell of a voice. they probably didn't need to do it, but i don't really care that they did.

Hmm, you've got a fair point. So, its ok, but as long as its in moderation then. I was just thinking there that triggering samples with a sampler is similar to heavy editing in ProTools - you can repeat samples of audio as much as you want and "correct" them. What do you guys think about ProTools then? A lot of people are using it and I'm sure a lot of material must get messed about with like repeating vocal lines, etc.

I have no idea how one can 'trigger' the drums...

I read that Kurt wasn't sure how 'Something In The Way' should sound, so Vig asked him to play it in the control room, and that's how it was recorded, with all the noises off. Then the strings come in and it ruins the whole thing. I do like the sound he got on "Breed" though. Was that triggered? Hell, Steve worked on it. He should know!

I beleive in making great music using any and all tools at one's disposal. If the record sounds the way it was intended to sound it's pointless to call 'cheating' on someone.