manners aren't crap.
politeness can be taken to hideous, self-reflexive/holier-than-thou extremes, but common courtesy makes perfect sense.
Social Code: Manners
43Obviously not crap, if "manners" are defined as "going out of your way, even a little bit, to consider another person and communicate respect to them." Mine are not flawless but I try.
I don't take the absence of perfect social courtesy as a deliberate insult every time it happens; nor do I take courtesy for granted (I hope), especially in stressful moments; nor do I take politeness as proof of good will in itself.
"Manners" in the shallow sense have no meaning or value if one is incapable of abandoning them when necessary and appropriate.
There's this thing called Minnesota Nice. I have assimilated in this strange land, but not fully. Last week I had a fucking ALL-OUT WAR of Minnesota Nice on the phone with someone who was being horribly rude to me without ever being less than ostentatiously civil in the shallowest possible sense. The micro-thin but unbreakable layer of Nice -- on both sides in this case, I admit -- added a dimension of extreme creepiness to the underlying antagonism. I lost that particular battle, not being as adept as those born to the practice. Telling the person to go fuck himself would have caused me more trouble than it was worth, and I couldn't find a middle way in the moment.
A specifically British equivalent exists. I don't know if it has a snappy nickname but it's staggeringly offensive when deployed correctly. I am in awe of it as a tactical weapon but would not presume to try it.
tommydski, is it possible that people think you are being sarcastic when you address them as Sir or Madam?
I don't take the absence of perfect social courtesy as a deliberate insult every time it happens; nor do I take courtesy for granted (I hope), especially in stressful moments; nor do I take politeness as proof of good will in itself.
"Manners" in the shallow sense have no meaning or value if one is incapable of abandoning them when necessary and appropriate.
There's this thing called Minnesota Nice. I have assimilated in this strange land, but not fully. Last week I had a fucking ALL-OUT WAR of Minnesota Nice on the phone with someone who was being horribly rude to me without ever being less than ostentatiously civil in the shallowest possible sense. The micro-thin but unbreakable layer of Nice -- on both sides in this case, I admit -- added a dimension of extreme creepiness to the underlying antagonism. I lost that particular battle, not being as adept as those born to the practice. Telling the person to go fuck himself would have caused me more trouble than it was worth, and I couldn't find a middle way in the moment.
A specifically British equivalent exists. I don't know if it has a snappy nickname but it's staggeringly offensive when deployed correctly. I am in awe of it as a tactical weapon but would not presume to try it.
tommydski, is it possible that people think you are being sarcastic when you address them as Sir or Madam?
Social Code: Manners
44maybe.
it isn't just that. just saying 'excuse me' or saying 'please' and 'thankyou' marks you down as an outsider in this town. people look at you like you have asked them to shit on your chest.
i'm gonna go up to canada next year, see what my money buys me.
it isn't just that. just saying 'excuse me' or saying 'please' and 'thankyou' marks you down as an outsider in this town. people look at you like you have asked them to shit on your chest.
i'm gonna go up to canada next year, see what my money buys me.
run joe run wrote:Kerble your enthusiasm.
Social Code: Manners
46Oscar Wilde wrote:A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.
Social Code: Manners
47The great thing about politeness is that it's like a game; it actually takes a lot of intelligence and skill to know when to say the right thing to people, and when the comment you're thinking about blurting out might offend someone.
For example, whenever I'm in a group of people, talking amongst all of them, I'll refrain from saying something if I know that it touches a nerve for someone. Like if I'm making friends with an overweight girl, I won't even make mention of the words 'fat' or 'overweight' in any of my conversation; it's a way to protect peeps' feelings.
And wittiness goes along with manners. I can't stand people who make vulgar jokes all of the time, or sarcastically lampoon people and think it's funny.
However, I do not like the overly stringent, Draconian laws for manners that you might find in a church, or in a tea party in England. Luckily I stay away from those places.
For example, whenever I'm in a group of people, talking amongst all of them, I'll refrain from saying something if I know that it touches a nerve for someone. Like if I'm making friends with an overweight girl, I won't even make mention of the words 'fat' or 'overweight' in any of my conversation; it's a way to protect peeps' feelings.
And wittiness goes along with manners. I can't stand people who make vulgar jokes all of the time, or sarcastically lampoon people and think it's funny.
However, I do not like the overly stringent, Draconian laws for manners that you might find in a church, or in a tea party in England. Luckily I stay away from those places.
Gay People Rock