What's sad is I still run into people in the U.S. who think Scotland has always been an independent country and then point to somewhere near Ireland as where it resides when shown a map.

I'm a geography snob, granted, but still... le sigh le sigh, and le sigh.

EDIT: haha, i should point out it's not ME showing them the map! (although I should consider that as a future career option, and should always be armed with a pocket map to pull out at any moment going "oh YEAH?") Remember that Aussie guy who quizzed Americans on Middle East geography? That happens all the time whenever I visit L.A to see family. These folks purposely prey upon large cities for these types of things, as does the Michael Moore crew surely, but they happen often enough such that I see them being filmed. Anyway...

Earwicker wrote:Though extremely unlikely if this did happen it would leave our (almost certain) next Prime Minister in something of an awkward spot and the Home Secretary and the leader of the the Lib Dems and quite a few others.

The article on Radio 4 this morning was interesting: the Scots interviewed said that the reason they were turning towards the SNP and away from Labour was because of their disatisfaction with Tony Blair (Iraq was mentioned more than once). They said that a Gordon Brown leadership would encourage them to maintain their Labour loyalty.

And look at the health and education legislation that Scotland implements: the Metro-media generally presents this is much more progressive than similar English legislation, for example paying nursing home fees in old age or paying for university fees.

I don't think I'm too fussed, even though my mother's side of the family all vote the Scottish National Party and want an independent Scotland.

I don't like to see Scotland become anglisised though, which Edinburgh obviously is in areas.

mackro wrote:What's sad is I still run into people in the U.S. who think Scotland has always been an independent country and then point to somewhere near Ireland as where it resides when shown a map.

The illiteracy of U.S. citizens with respect to geography is astonishing. For instance, I've met a lot of people in the U.S. who have no clue as to the location of Idaho.

For the record, Idaho is one of the seven Great Lakes, and it is bordered by Missouri, West Dakota and the moon.

How about those of us with the consciousness and the wherewithall make a big push within our short lives for the end of borders, states and countries once and for all time and promote the idea of just being human above all this old dead useless and dangerous history?

Just a thought.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:How about putting an end to the United States as we know it?

I call for the immediate secession of the "red states".

Why? Because they're bleeding the blue states dry.

Considering that they're the biggest federal "welfare" recipients in the country, I'm sure that the "red states" will make a great success of their preferred "less government" approach. No more dirty New York/Chicago/Los Angeles tax dollars for you to spend on useless military bases, "red states"!

Go for it!

And don't forget to take Texas with you!

Hey! Will you run on that platform? I don't need to know anything else...

Chapter Two wrote:How about those of us with the consciousness and the wherewithall make a big push within our short lives for the end of borders, states and countries once and for all time and promote the idea of just being human above all this old dead useless and dangerous history?

Just a thought.

...and, tragically, this is clearly too much to ask. I'll vote for you, too, though...

rayj wrote:

Chapter Two wrote:How about those of us with the consciousness and the wherewithall make a big push within our short lives for the end of borders, states and countries once and for all time and promote the idea of just being human above all this old dead useless and dangerous history?

Just a thought.

...and, tragically, this is clearly too much to ask. I'll vote for you, too, though...

Nah, fuck voting. Let's just do it.

I would`t place my short and vulnerable life in danger for any idea.I have my own selfish purposes.
I care about myself and my friends,but I don`t want to save the world.
No ideology is bigger than life.

Rodabod wrote:I don't think I'm too fussed, even though my mother's side of the family all vote the Scottish National Party and want an independent Scotland.

I don't like to see Scotland become anglisised though, which Edinburgh obviously is in areas.

I dunno, when you compare scotland to Wales and Eire, the English did a damned good job of exterminating scottish language and culture. Gaelic has become a financially sustained language, predominantley due to the west-coast bias in scottish politics. This does little except turn scotland into a pitiful 'living history' museum for the benefit of misty-eyed tourists. A good chunk of the country never spoke it. Coming from a Northeast/Northern Isles backgound, it pains me to see my taxes being poured into the propagation of Gaelic, just to give those on the West-Coast a greater sense of identity with a hertitage they never had. Lowland Scots and Doric are pretty much gone. There are few, if any native speakers of Gaelic around. In Wales there are many for whom Welsh is their first lanuage.

When it comes to capitalising on the north sea oil money, we've pretty much missed the boat. The oil companies are just scrabbling around trying to make the dregs economically viable. The scarcity and rising price of oil are all that maintains it.

I'm not sure if independence would be worth the hassle. It would be great to believe that scotland could stand alone like Norway and be a strong and affluent state. Having visited Norway, I can see many reasons why this would never happen. Norwegians seem to have a greater sense of fairness, social justice and patriotism (by patriotism I mean beyond drinking whisky and calling the English cunts) than we have here. Rural communities are supported regardless of cost, and there is greater sense of community throughout. For those of us living outwith the central belt, independence would simply mean the transition from an insensitive urbanised Westminister bias to our politics, to an insenitive urbanised Edinburgh/Glasgow bias. The net result would be negligible. Though it might be a good wake-up call to see just how corrupt our glorious Nationalist politicians are when they grasped the reigns of power.

scotland has pretty much cast itself as the plucky underdog of nations, professional losers and noble savages. Being the fluffers of Westminister seems to be our natural station. Why rock the boat?

I dunno.