i realise this has been covered to varying degrees on here, but my searches are still lacking to find me a direct enough answer.....so here goes:

im recording various projects, mostly rock bands in a very live, gallery type room, and i am very much into using stereo overheads as the "basis" to getting a good drum sound, blending in the close mics to suit the overheads....my problem being that when recording louder bands where the drummer is playing almost constantly on the hats and heavily on the cymbals, i find it consumes my whole drum mix, making it very hard to use this otherwise pretty cool drum sound. ive tried winding out the top end, therefore dulling the cymbals and their presence, but this obviously has an affect on the snare (losing its brightness) and compromises the high end component of the cymbals. should i be experimenting with different OH placement in these cases, or using less of the OH sound for the drum kit when this happens, or is there another way around this problem?
to clarify, my recording set up is an 8 track Tascam TSR-8 1/2 inch machine, and the OH's i generally use are the equivalent of a Studio Projects or Rode NT 2.
thanks.

benjaminwayne wrote:should i be experimenting with different OH placement in these cases?

Yes.

If the OHs have a cardiod or hypercardiod pattern, then you've really got to aim them like a gun. I haven't used the studio projects mics though, so i dont know what pattern they have.
If you can get the close mics to sound good enough, then just try backing the OHs off. I've struggled with the same problem. Having just 8 tracks to work with demands experementation and creativity.

I have some dull ribbon mics that I often use for overheads. they are great for taking the harshness out of loud cymbals.

Try deadening the surfaces nearest to the drum kit. The wall/s behind make a big difference as does the floor/ceiling. Even if the drums are already on a rug often adding another layer of something absorbent underneath or placing additional rugs around the kit will help calm an unruly room down. You could also try lowering your overheads to around height of the top of the kick drum, middle of the floor tom-ish. You'll still have plenty of cymbals, especially if the room is bright and the drummer hits hard, but you get a lot more drum shell sound to work with.

This is a problem I've been wrestling with for years. The problem is some drumers hit louder then others. Some have louder brass then others. Some songs require riding of the crash (I really hate when they do that) or bashing open hats (another frequency eater).

But you can't tell them not to play the parts that they've written for their song. So I've tried a bunch of different things.

1) move the mics around.
2) use darker mics (the ribbon idea works good)
3) Move the cymbals (I know it's extreme but I've asked before) Some guys have their brass 3 feet above their tom heads!
4) Use different cymbals I once saw Brendon O'brien whip out a pair of really old ugly hats that he carries around and it totally solved an annoying hat problem.
5) I've actually taped pieces of paper towels to cymbals to dull them down a bit. Just like you tape or dampen a drum head. It worked, but it's dangerous and probably should not be your first solution.
6) Most extreme- ask them to change the part- most people will bristle when you suggest something like that but offer to record both quickly so everyone can hear the difference. One of the things that makes certain records so so big is very little brass.
7) These days I find myself turning the OH's down about 7db lower then my close mics and room mics. But that's just me.

tarandfeathers wrote: try lowering your overheads to around height of the top of the kick drum, middle of the floor tom-ish. You'll still have plenty of cymbals, especially if the room is bright and the drummer hits hard, but you get a lot more drum shell sound to work with.

So if you lower them to the top of the kik drum shell where do you put them? in front of the kik? In front of the rack tom?

Attenuate the overheads quite a bit. I don't put much gain in overhead signals much at all, because I find a little goes a long way. Maybe even use one omnidirectional mic as your only overhead mic.

Drummers need to go by the old Lou Reed rule: "Cymbals? They eat up the fucking guitars!"

otisroom wrote:

tarandfeathers wrote: try lowering your overheads to around height of the top of the kick drum, middle of the floor tom-ish. You'll still have plenty of cymbals, especially if the room is bright and the drummer hits hard, but you get a lot more drum shell sound to work with.

So if you lower them to the top of the kik drum shell where do you put them? in front of the kik? In front of the rack tom?

One facing roughly between the floor tom and the kick, and one on the snare drum/rack tom side. I've never done doing this using any co-incident type techniques (X-Y, M-S etc), which is what it sounds like you want to try. No reason why it shouldn't work, but you'd have to get the mics a fair way back from the drums to get any sort of sensible stereo I should think.

they don't include polar response on datasheets for nothing.