barndog wrote:The "precious" lines contributed to a general lack of believability that basically did this movie in for me. The whole Iggy and the Stooges / Herschel Gordon Lewis precocious teen thing is so trite. And then she brings over some "tunage" for Justin Bateman's character and puts on what? All the Young Dudes? Like that would be new to him?

But he said right away that of course he knew that song. Dude, SHE'S SIXTEEN. She's in that age range when she thinks she's the first person discovering everything. Of course she would think that someone who opened for the Melvins had never heard Mott the Hoople, because despite all her frontin' about being smart beyond her years and shit, she's still an idiot sixteen-year-old!

I thought it stretched the realms of credibility to have a 16-year-old in a small Minnesota town cite the Stooges as her favorite band, but the more i think about it, the more i realize that while her character may genuinely love those bands, she's sort of being a poser about it. Hey! Like a 16-year-old in the real world would!

I apologize in advance for Reubening the thread, but i want to address something barndog said in the Ebert thread:

barndog wrote: The main character in Juno reminded me a lot of the main character in Ghost World - this wise beyond her years high school student who falls for an older man.

But she doesn't fall for the older man--he falls for her. In fact, it's established early on that she has no idea what's really going on in this interaction between her and Jason Bateman's character. The first time she comes home from taking the ultrasound over to their house, her stepmom warns her that "you don't go hang out with a married man when the wife's not home--trust me." Of course, Juno thinks she's crazy and can't possibly conceive that an older, married man would fall for her, so she ignores the advice because Juno is Smarter Than Everyone Else. Of course, she's not, and when Jason Bateman tells her he's leaving his wife, she flips out at him. I really didn't get the impression that she was falling for him.

The comparison to Enid in Ghost World is valid, but i think that (ironically, considering what i said earlier about movies not always having to be based in the real world) Juno's character is actually more well-developed and believable than Enid's is. The Ghost World story, in the movie anyway (been awhile since i read the comic), doesn't try very hard to establish that all Enid's bravado is just that--bravado. In Juno, however, i constantly got the impression that she's a confused teenager that doesn't know shit. Hell, she even tells her dad "i don't know what kind of girl i am." Enid would never have told her clueless milquetoast dad that (an aside--JK Simmons as Juno's dad was fucking stellar).

But i think the biggest clue to Juno's complete lack of actual confidence or wiseness comes when she confesses to Paulie how much she loves him at the end of the movie. She very pointedly states that he's "so incredibly cool without even trying"--she admires that because she's trying so hard to be cool and she keeps fucking up. Of course, he also says that he tries really hard, but that's because most kids are at that age. And of course, that's why they connect. Because they're both confused stupid teenagers that don't know anything about life yet.

I've been thinking a lot about this film almost nonstop since i saw it, but even more when i found out that someone hated it, because that was initially inconceivable to me.

I have not seen this movie, but I'm against it because it seems to support the act of having a baby rather than aborting.

I'm anti having babies.

Therefore, I will never watch it.

CRAP.

DrAwkward wrote:I apologize in advance for Reubening the thread, but i want to address something barndog said in the Ebert thread:

barndog wrote: The main character in Juno reminded me a lot of the main character in Ghost World - this wise beyond her years high school student who falls for an older man.

But she doesn't fall for the older man--he falls for her. In fact, it's established early on that she has no idea what's really going on in this interaction between her and Jason Bateman's character.

Reubening - nice!

You're right - when I wrote that, I really meant both characters were attracted to older men. They did stress that she was unaware that it was in anyway wrong to be hanging out with a married man.

Clearly you have put a lot of thought into this - and I never really thought of the angle that she might not actually like the Iggy, etc. That would make a lot of sense. But sixteen year olds are also very vulnerable - and want deperately to be accepted. I think if they would have showed more of that, I might have cared for the character more. As admirable as it may seem, I can't imagine any 16 year old pregnant high-schooler being that stoic and unafraid. Above all, I think that - well and the soundtrack - is why I disliked this movie.

i will wager anyone here that Juno will win best screenplay at the oscars this year...is it the best? probably not, but that ex stripper should clear off room on her bookshelf.

owen wrote:i will wager anyone here that Juno will win best screenplay at the oscars this year...is it the best? probably not, but that ex stripper should clear off room on her bookshelf.

I'll take that bet. Charlie Kaufman she's not.

agreed, but that doesn't mean she aint gonna win.

the bet is on.

barndog wrote:Above all, I think that - well and the soundtrack - is why I disliked this movie.

I will agree that the soundtrack had way too much Moly Peaches/whatsername. The whole "quirky folk pop indie movie soundtrack" thing *was* very distracting. However, the final scene wouldn't have been as poingnant without the soundtrack, so i forgave it a little bit. A little bit.

DrAwkward wrote:I thought it stretched the realms of credibility to have a 16-year-old in a small Minnesota town cite the Stooges as her favorite band, but the more i think about it, the more i realize that while her character may genuinely love those bands, she's sort of being a poser about it. Hey! Like a 16-year-old in the real world would!

My friend's seventeen-year-old daughter--in Madisonville, Kentucky--is obsessed with Iggy Pop and begged me to burn her the entire Funhouse sessions box. I think kids in isolated places just might exert more energy in discovering new bands, etc., because there's less to do and more time to scour the internet for cool, obscure stuff. Plus, they might have cool parents from elsewhere.

DrAwkward wrote:Yeah. I got through about 30 minutes of Garden State before turning it off with a mighty yawn. Fuck that movie.

That's too bad, if for no other reason than you missed the best line Peter Sarsgaard has ever delivered:
"How about some fuckin' furniture, dude?"

I'll see Juno for Cera and Ellen Page, because she's too hot to live. But it will probably evaporate upon contact with sunshine like many others of its type.