Can someone file Ralph away where we never have to deal with him again?

Considering how disillusioned I am with both Clinton and Obama, I find Nader's [recurring] views to be a breath of fresh air.

People make a good point, though: Nader has no chance in hell of ever becoming president.

Still, I'm not sure I understand the outrage. Personally, I feel like I would be able to live with myself more voting for someone like Nader rather than Clinton or Obama, who talk the talk but don't necessarily represent my point of view.

I feel that Nader's assessment that the Democratic party has essentially become just as much of a bloated hypocrisy as the Republican party, lined with lobbyists and special interest groups, is spot on. Clinton and Obama can blabber all they want about change, health care and "gradually reducing" troops from Iraq, but once either of them gets in that hot seat, it will be a different story.

Rick Reuben wrote:The parameters of the false left/right paradigm are carefully guarded by liberals who march to the drumbeat played by the status quo but who sell themselves as progressives.

What does the term "progressive" mean with respect to its application to American politics?

I look forward to your answer.

Good point.

Honestly, I'm just sick of politics in general. I'm sick of the Democrats not having any recognizable backbone and letting themselves get bummed by the Republicans and corporate U.S.A.

I don't think either Clinton or Obama are all that progressive (especially Clinton), and any liberals under that illusion are just hoping that there's going to be a slightly better country with them in charge.

mattw wrote:I don't think either Clinton or Obama are all that progressive (especially Clinton).

What does the term "progressive" mean with respect to its application to American politics?

I look forward to your answer.

Bradley R. Weissenberger wrote:
What does the term "progressive" mean with respect to its application to American politics?

I look forward to your answer.

I would define it as an attempt to move forward from the regressive (you like that?) policies of the Bush administration. Only thing is, with Clibama in charge, it'd be like two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward....you get the picture.

Bush in charge: An intensely painful ream up the ass.

Clibama in charge: A slightly satisfying ream up the ass.

I voted for Nader in 2000, and I'm not the least bit ashamed to say it. He's scrupulously honest, his positions are intelligent and well-considered, and pretty much everything he says about what's wrong with the political process in America today rings true. However, while I was supported both Nader and his ambitions for establishing the Green Party as a viable third party (it's become painfully obvious that the Democrats have little to no use for the left today), that whole plan backfired after the 2000 election, and while I think it's foolish to blame Nader for Gore's defeat (he's been made the scapegoat for Gore's failings as a campaigner and the Republicans' wholsesale theft of the Florida election), the unfortunate reality is that no one has looked at Nader the same way since, and the damage to his political reputation has made him a liability. The Greens need to find a viable candidate without Nader's perceived baggage, and Nader needs to find a better way to use the political capital he still has left.

Also, while I'm on board with practically everything Nader wants to accomplish, the unfortunate reality is that if the impossible happened and he did win, no one in congress or the judicial branch would do anything to help the guy. As a gadfly who can bring issues into the campaign that need to be discussed, he's valuable, but as an actual candidate, maybe not so much.

Rick Reuben wrote:If choosing Obama is 'progressive', then so is choosing Coke over Pepsi. Sellout liberals choose Coke every four years, and then spend the next four years denying that Coke and Pepsi are brands of cola that taste remarkably similar and are bottled and marketed using the exact same processes.

Bad metaphor, Rick -- I can easily tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi, and I know plenty of other folks who can. They aren't that similar. As for progressives liking Coke, maybe it has to do with Robert Woodruff being a longtime financial backer of Dr. Martin Luther King, which for a white multi-millionaire living in Atlanta in the late Fifties through late Sixties was rather out of the ordinary.

Rick Reuben wrote:

warmowski, 2004 wrote: I voted for him last election and I still think he is a candidate who tells the the truth about private industry's corruption of both parties, its alarming encroachment into local government and about the totally unpatriotic practices of so many US-based corporations.

rick reuben's accurately paraphrased Imaginary Warmowski, 2007-2008 wrote: Ron Paul tells the truth about private industry's corruption of both parties, its alarming encroachment into local government and about the totally unpatriotic practices of so many US-based corporations. Therefore, I will do everything I can to slander him, attack his supporters, and drive the issues of globalism, the military/industrial/banking complex, the elite financial control over governance, and the false left/right paradigm back into the shadows where they belong.

Man, that liberal peer pressure is a stern master.

That's right, Foamy. Equate doing everything I can with posting an informed opinion. Thanks for the reminder that banging on someone else's Submit button ad nauseam is the anonymous pussy internet typist's equivalent of a lifetime of work.

Ralph Nader's work was, without argument, a real check on corporate power. His books are the pathway to comprehending the private institutional mindset and its lethality. Your fringe candidate douchebag leads in the opposite direction. Ron Paul's work (aside from his winning nine Congressional re-election campaigns) is the tax-avoiding boardroom's wet dream - especially if your boardroom is in the Galveston shrimp business, the wall-building business, the private school business, the private prisons business, and yes, the financial business.

Bad Foamy! Can't tell your Ronnies apart!



-r