Rick Reuben wrote:I like these Irish referendum laws. Sounds like the establishment is really mad and frustrated by the media time that is going to the anti-globalists:

the scotsman 6-10-08 wrote:Irish referendum laws require both sides to enjoy equal media time and state funding. This has helped propel unknowns from the political fringes into the mainstream.

Dublin humorist Brendan O'Connor mocked the anti-EU lobby as "a motley crew of crusties from the far left, mysterious and downright mad people from the far right, and former terrorists and their colleagues."

Nonetheless, these ill-documented fringe groups and nationalists like Sinn Fein, have kept the Yes campaign on the defensive.

They have plastered Ireland with posters warning that the treaty will force Ireland to surrender its sovereignty on moral, military and financial matters.

One conjures up the memory of Ireland's patriot dead from the 1919-21 war of independence from Britain. "They died for your freedom. Don't throw it all away. Vote no," it reads.

An arch-conservative Catholic group called Coir – "Justice" in the native Gaelic – warns darkly that the treaty could force Ireland to legalise abortion, euthanasia, prostitution and hard drugs.

Micheal Martin, the foreign minister, after debating with a Coir activist live on national radio, sounded exasperated. "It's hard to believe that anyone in their right might could believe such ridiculous nonsense," he said.

"Dublin humorist"?? They really are scraping the barrel going to that no-talent cunt for comment.

Calling Sinn Féin "former terrorists" while forgetting to mention Fianna Fáils IRA roots and Fine Gael's fascist roots points to this man's level of intelligence.

The referendum laws are fairer here than in some countries alright but you should be under no illusions. Politics is as rancid here as most other places.

you're not wrong heeby, brendan o' connor is a pig faced purveyor of shit, but to be fair to the man, the current leaders of sinn fein were literally terrorists, as opposed to the current leaders of Fianna Fail/Fine Gael who are just wankers. I particularly disliked cowan's underhanded attempts to corral people like sheep into the yes camp, going so far as to ask Sarkozy to delay a planned paper on common military policy until after the referendum

ivan wrote:you're not wrong heeby, brendan o' connor is a pig faced purveyor of shit, but to be fair to the man, the current leaders of sinn fein were literally terrorists, as opposed to the current leaders of Fianna Fail/Fine Gael who are just wankers. I particularly disliked cowan's underhanded attempts to corral people like sheep into the yes camp, going so far as to ask Sarkozy to delay a planned paper on common military policy until after the referendum

Yeah you're right. I was letting my blind hatred of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Brendan O' Connor get the better of me.

I'd only just read about France delaying the paper on military policy before I read your message. Absolutely unbelievable. I think he has a lot personally invested in this and would do anything to get it passed, lest he lose face and influence in Europe. Fuck him.

Ricky Bobby copied and pasted

Quote:

1. Lisbon makes the EU Constitution superior to the Irish
Constitution in all areas of EU law.

Stupid scaremongering point number 1. This is already the case, it was agreed to be the case as of Ireland joining the EC in 1979 by referendum. The treaty changes nothing in this regard. Bringing it up at this point is a tactic used by dishonest people to scare confused people into voting no.

2. Lisbon gives the EU the constitutional form of a supranational European Federal State and turns Ireland and the other Member States into regions or provinces of this Federation.

Stupid scaremongering point number 2. You are using emotive terms not used by the EU to scare people into voting no. Ireland retains full control of taxation, crime, and social policy. There are common areas of law and policy such as public provision of services, immigration and asylum law (we can opt out), free movement of goods, the environment etc etc which have centralised legislation, but this has been the case already for many years, and Ireland retains key vetos and opt-outs in all contentious areas and social issues.

3. Lisbon shifts influence over law-making and decision-taking in the EU towards the Big States and away from the smaller ones like Ireland.

Ireland already has a disproportionate say in matters, and while some like Sinn Fein say we should fight to retain our above the odds say, it is unrealistic to expect that the EU can expand without some reallocation of power. The proposed reallocation gives Ireland increased ability to block legislation, and slightly decreased ability to propose (by about 6%) The treaty also gives more power to the talking shop that is the Parliament, the members of which are directly elected.

4. Lisbon removes Ireland’s right to a permanent EU Commissioner.

Yes, it also removes this right for EVERY OTHER STATE, all states nominate a commissioner two times out of three. So Ireland is treated as an equal with Germany in this regard. And it's not Ireland's Commissioner, Commissioners officially do not represent their country (although they act in national self interest in reality)

5. Lisbon deprives the Irish Government of its right to decide who Ireland’s Commissioner would be when it comes to our turn to be on the Commission.

Not a bad point actually this one, although we don't really decide as it is, under the treaty we get to suggest a commissioner, the president of the commission is under no obligation to accept, common sense dictates he nearly always would.

6. Lisbon gives the European Union the power to make laws in 32 new areas that are removed from the Dail and other National Parliaments.

I don't doubt it does, but it's dishonest to merely state this fact as a bad thing without telling us what these areas of law are.

7. Lisbon is a self-amending Treaty which would open the way to harmonising Ireland’s company taxes.

This is disputed by everyone except the most ardent of idiots. taxation remains an area where Ireland (4 million people) could veto the entire union (about 300 million people). Any future changes to the treaty will require a referendum as per the decision in Crotty. I'll leave you read that judgement yourself bob.

8. Lisbon gives the EU the power to decide our human and civil rights.

What the hell does this even mean? Are they talking about the ECJ enforcing the charter of rights? Yes then, it allows a citizen to go to the court to ask for the rights to be enforced. Frankly not a bad thing given the conservative nature of Irish Courts, and these are a set of rights which are to be given democratic mandate by this referendum.

9. Lisbon provides that if one-third of National Parliaments object to the Commission’s proposal for an EU law, the Commission must reconsider it, but not necessarily abandon it.

Elsewhere the treaty gives greater power to the elected parliament and allows for intervention by state governments and citizen petitions.

10. Lisbon militarizes the EU further.

Common Defence and Foreign Policy remains an area where unanimous decisions are required


You are parsing the one-sided opinions of those who support your world-view, without really reading into what is at stake. I still haven't decided which way to vote, but i'd be an idiot if I relied on the type of materials you are posting

can someone make me an emoticon of bob building a straw man and then beating it up, I think it's all he understands

So far the only thing I've learned about the Lisbon Treaty is that it caused the worst fucking posters in the history of any country ever to be created and plastered fucking everywhere.

I was back home a month ago and it felt like the vote could go either way. Now I think my money is on the No crowd coming out on top tomorrow.

I probably should have gotten an absentee ballot while I was back. Perhaps it would have been counted, too.

Apparently today is the 20th Anniversary of Ray Houghton finest moment in Stuttgart (or second finest if you want to split hairs)

If that is not enough to get people skipping down to the polls, I don't know what is.

This info is about as relevant as anything RR has posted.

Although it does have some basis in truth.

...Joxer goes to Stuttgart

aldofarian wrote:Apparently today is the 20th Anniversary of Ray Houghton finest moment in Stuttgart (or second finest if you want to split hairs)

If that is not enough to get people skipping down to the polls, I don't know what is.

This info is about as relevant as anything RR has posted.

Although it does have some basis in truth.

...Joxer goes to Stuttgart

You read the Metro this morning? Really was a classic.

I'm still voting no but between that goal and the €40bn we've got from the EU over the years I have to say I love Europe.

Looks like a No vote is more likely than not...

RTE News wrote:Early tallies in the Lisbon Referendum count from constituencies around the country are showing a very strong showing by the No vote.

The No vote is strong in many rural areas and in working class districts of cities, while middle class areas appear to be less supportive of the Treaty than had been anticipated.

I conducted my own poll yesterday, asking everyone in work, the house and family how they voted. Not one person voted in favour of the Treaty.

Rick Reuben wrote:

telegraph, an hour ago wrote:Irish voters have left Brussels' plans for EU integration in tatters by rejecting the Lisbon Treaty.

Even before all the official Ireland referendum results were in, the Irish government conceded that the public had voted against the Treaty.

Dermot Ahern, the country’s justice minister, predicted: “It looks like this will be a 'no' vote.”

Mr Ahern added: “At the end of the day, for a myriad of reasons, the people have spoken.”

Well done.

This will be sent back to Brussels, reworded but not substantively changed, given a different name, sent back to us within 18-24 months (with a more effective propaganda push) and passed so this is a temporary reprieve as opposed to a fatal blow.