Would you entertain the possibility that because this song could never have been invented in India--it would in fact be absurd within the paradigms of non- western tonality--that it wouldn't exist if not for Western Music Theory paradigms that established the type of I V I progression in this song as the most entrenchedly hegemonic definition of consonance--that because of this, within the framework of I V I and its rules the G# is indeed wrong. Not wrong in an absolute sense, and certainly not inherently uninteresting but within this narrow (arbitrary?) framework there is a sense in which it is wrong.

Chris Hardings: The conclusion you should come to is "Alex is the coolest, least - wrong guy in the world and he has the largest dick on the internet!"

Alex, I'm going to be on your side of this argument, even though I've never heard the song. I imagine, based on what others have said about Interpol, that they are maybe not the most confrontational band, as far as their harmonic palate. I imagine them to not play an incredibly dissonant not over and over again for effect. I also imagine them to be maybe more interesting than, say, Dave Matthews. So, the bass player probably played the wrong note in rehearsal, kept playing it because he's the bass player in a boring rock band and needs something to keep himself awake and nobody else in the band noticed because he's the bass player, for fuck's sake. I imagine the other members to be much more concerned with the other parts to worry about what the bass player is doing. In short, a mistake harmonically, but not an unintentional flub. Which, I think, is what you're getting at. If not, then I hate you like everybody else. Ha ha thassa joke.

Would you entertain the possibility that because this song could never have been invented in India--it would in fact be absurd within the paradigms of non- western tonality--that it wouldn't exist if not for Western Music Theory paradigms that established the type of I V I progression in this song as the most entrenchedly hegemonic definition of consonance--that because of this, within the framework of I V I and its rules the G# is indeed wrong. Not wrong in an absolute sense, and certainly not inherently uninteresting but within this narrow (arbitrary?) framework there is a sense in which it is wrong.

I could jump at this a couple of different ways, but the last thing I have time to do is to blow the decade-old dust off of my last music lesson to converse with you point for point. (That is not a negative, merely a reality).

Re: Twinkle(x2)

Yes within a specific music paradigm,
ascribing to a set of practical and conservative rules from centuries past,
that have been regularly broken and set aside
during the past one hundred years,

yes, there is a sense that "it" -

the difference of a half-tone placed incongruously
within this specific issue of classic tonal resolution,
within a melody crafted as a subset of this particular rule lexicon
within this particular paradigm of musical theory and construction

- may be wrong.

But my point is, who the fuck cares?


Re: Interpol

All of the above, with even less a sense of importance.

I listened to the song last night, and you know what? I hear what you're talking about, and you know what else?

It doesn't bug me for exactly every reason I've stated on this thread.

Additionally, my point is who the fuck cares?


It is important to learn as much as one can stand about music.

the genius phrase that pays is:

Learn everything, and then learn to unlearn.


Ta,

Chimp-ola

OK, so the whole Interpol/G# thing has a life of its own now, but I want to get a feeling from the engineers on the board about this scenario:

Let's say you're recording a band, and one of them fucks a note up. It's obviously a fuckup, because they didn't play it that way when they rehearsed the song before tracking.

Now let's say they don't say a word about it. Perhaps they didn't notice the mistake, or perhaps they don't care. Or maybe the offender is new to the band and too embarrassed.

Do you say:

(a) "Hey, fancy punching in and fixing that?", or,
(b) Nothing.

The consequence of (a) is that the band might peg you for a Bob Rock producer type. The consequence of (b) is that the band might hear the screw up later and doubt your professionalism because they think you didn't spot it or that you didn't care enough about the recording to make it polished enough.

What would you do?

who the fuck cares?

hear hear.
I never said my point wasn't extremely tedious and profoundly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. If I were to postulate what "good music" is I could quite easily just cut and paste the theoretical arguments people used to counter my criticism of the G#.

Also:

I like Interpol's bass player most of all.

I think two Interpol songs are okay and one of them is "untitled". They certainly don't exist in the pantheon of all time great songs and I wouldn't have heard them if Interpol didn't have big bucks and hype behind them. But those two songs are okay.

I re- listened to Frances Farmer last night after keeling over in disbelief that it had truly been 7 years since I had last heard it. It was the guitar not the bass and my new older ears have a different spin on why the moment is beautiful. It's equally due to the vocal going up a whole step on "soothe" and most especially because of the way the feedback punctuates that half step. Who knows if the half step was mistakenly generated; regardless, it was embraced and embellished in a way that is possible only with very subtly attuned ears. Plus I remember one of my dad's points being that he didn't think it was an accident. I think he was just being obstinate for some reason though.

Anyway, fuck this thread and all the bad blood it generated.

all the bad blood it generated

(did it? at any rate...)





word.

tmidgett wrote:the mistakes are usually the best parts

it's like when someone was talking to neil young about his guitar going out of tune: "go out of tune? i was _already_ in tune."

sometimes the place you end up is more interesting than the place you meant to go

http://redsk8r.jengineer.net/t1g0.mp3


so i'm recording this take (solo electric guitar) at a friend john's studio down south when this 19 year old wanders in, asking about an internship. even though i'm in the control room its obvious i'm in the middle of recording, but this kid somehow decides its ok to start in. he reaches over ACROSS me to shake hands with john-- again, AS I'M TRACKING-- and bumps into my right arm and the stool i was sitting on. as i'm playing TAP HARMONICS.

this happens at 1:45. by the time this kid's finished his "oh shit dude, sorry about that..." i've convinced myself not to get immediately ornery and begin covering up the flub with something close to the "repeat three times" idea rather than abort. we kept the track around, but still i couldn't listen to that part without nearly feeling ill.


a couple months later, and i come back across it. and i fucking LOVE it. i'm talking about LOVE. this bit (1:49-1:58 ) gives me CHILLS. an initial disaster, but i kept hearing all these quiet melodies tucked away the more i listen. dissonant, unnatural, sloppy, totally against any kind of melodic theory. shit made my year.


cheers...

nd

stewie wrote:Let's say you're recording a band, and one of them fucks a note up. It's obviously a fuckup, because they didn't play it that way when they rehearsed the song before tracking.

Now let's say they don't say a word about it. Perhaps they didn't notice the mistake, or perhaps they don't care. Or maybe the offender is new to the band and too embarrassed.

Do you say:

(a) "Hey, fancy punching in and fixing that?", or,
(b) Nothing.
What would you do?

If they don't notice in the playback, or don't care, then neither do I. I don't care if they think I'm professional. They chose to pay me professionally. and if they haven't noticed until the final cut comes out, that's their fault for not paying attention the several hundred times I played it back for them.

Chris Hardings: The conclusion you should come to is "Alex is the coolest, least - wrong guy in the world and he has the largest dick on the internet!"

I've already realized this.
out of curiosity, who did you get your dick on the internet? Mine is still attached to my lower torso. It also won't fit in my floppy, Jazz, Zip, or CDR drive. I maybe could take off the side panel and jam it in there.......

Chris

my favorite song ever is this one called Get Away by flipper. they completely fuck up the THIRD NOTE on the song and it ends up making the song the most sad and beautiful thing ever. then they continue to just keep doing random guitar work throughout the rest of the song although thats not so surprising since its flipper.

now that would be a good song if they didnt get the third note wrong on the first try, but they did, which escalated it from "awesome flipper single" to "the best song ever produced by any band." if one mistake can do that, i cant say im against leaving mistakes on records.

I'm adding this response (which isn't really about a mistake at all) without having read much of the thread. At the beginning of 'State was Bad' on Long Hair in Three Stages you can hear someone sniff before the band comes in. I always thought it was cool. Not exactly the integrity of a slightly out of tune banjo but hey, boogers are funny.